gibraltar liberation

[graceabounds]

drill down one more layer beyond ‘safety’ and ‘comfort’…. what is the direct experience of these, prior to words about them?

[Sukie]

Hi,
Sorry for the delay, I've looked beyond the comfort and safety several times, I'm not finding anything, well.. its like I'm looking through a tunnel, that still has some flavour of 'me', this can widen sometimes to include the space around me, but its just empty space, or aware space, or space I'm aware of...its nothing and nothing has changed or happened....Im worried that this might be it, I would be so disappointed...please advise :)

[graceabounds]

Where exactly is this “flavour of me”?
Is it in sensation?
Is it in the visual field?
Does it have a location, shape, boundary?

Look again, precisely. If you don’t directly find something
then be honest… Is the “flavour of me” anything more than a thought claiming ownership?

I would be so disappointed

What exactly were you expecting to happen? What would that provide to the structure of ‘you’?

That expectation, is it here now?

What if nothing was ever supposed to happen?

Because this isn’t about producing a new experience.
It’s about seeing what’s already the case…

[Sukie]

Where exactly is this “flavour of me”?
Is it in sensation?
Is it in the visual field?
Does it have a location, shape, boundary?

It seems to be the shape of my field, its only on the left side, it seems illuminated, conscious and the right side seems dark and quiet. I seem always to 'look out of the tunnel' on the left which feels like my energy field, it bulges out on the left, thats what feels like me, its in my head and in front, it seems yellowish, lit up, these are all thoughts about something like sensation but less than physical sensation.

There is nothing physical there of course, this feels like distraction. That the inquiry should be focussed 'backwards' into the abyss of the mind, where there is nothing and so it is difficult to maintain focus there.

What exactly were you expecting to happen? What would that provide to the structure of ‘you’?

I was expecting my sense of self to be replaced with a feeling of oneness. If nothing is supposed to happen, how should I know when it hasn't? :))

[graceabounds]

Very good.

There is nothing physical there

Exactly. This is critical seeing. What you describe is not a self. It is a recurring perceptual/conceptual pattern. A thought immediately tries to convert a sensation into a location of identity.
“This is where I am looking from.”
“The quiet side is not-me.” etc

WHY does that illuminated region feel important?

I seem always to ‘look out of the tunnel’

Can you find an actual looker there?

the inquiry should be focussed ‘backwards’ into the abyss

That is a trap. You are imagining liberation as finding the correct direction to aim attention.
But no direction contains a self!


Examine the illuminated left-field directly.
Without referring to memory, using spatial imagination,
or even describing it, what is actually there?

Look before the labels.
Does the “yellow conscious tunnel” say “I am you”? Or does thought say that afterward?


You mention the right side feels “dark and quiet.”

Notice the automatic assumption
illuminated = me
quiet = absence
What if the quiet side simply lacks narrative?

Stay with the left side sensations. Is there an owner of it?
Or only the appearance of localized experiencing plus a story ABOUT “me”?

I was expecting my sense of self to be replaced with a feeling of oneness.

Take a look back at this from when you registered:

Concerning Liberation

We are fully aware of the fact that the term “Liberation” has different meanings in different traditions. In order to not set up false expectations, we'd like to make it clear that we use the word in a very specific way. In the context of Liberation Unleashed, liberation refers to the clear, unambiguous and direct realisation of the absence of a separate self. Because not everyone, perhaps no one comes to the Gate without at least some degree of latent tendencies, what we refer to as liberation may not be what you expect of it. Seeing self for what it really is - a story, does not mean that your life is suddenly upgraded in every conceivable way. Old habits, beliefs, programming and conditioning will very probably remain in place. Awakening from the story of you allows old patterns to drop away quickly. The foundation upon which these patterns were based is gone. In this sense, liberation is just the beginning.

‘Feeling of oneness’ is a concept of something off in the distance, not here now. We aren’t aiming for it here. What we are after is clear seeing of this first stage in the awakening process: there is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be.

So take a look.
Who owns that concept of ‘oneness’ and who compares what IS with this concept?

And since you asked ‘how should I know’… The I cannot know. The I cannot take credit for knowing or not knowing. There is no I.

So what we look for here at LU is the end of seeking. Once what is is seen that energy falls away and life goes on as it was and always has been. Free of doership.

[Sukie]

what is actually there?

Stay with the left side sensations. Is there an owner of it?
Or only the appearance of localized experiencing plus a story ABOUT “me”?

Its like a physical sensation but not quite, it moves with focus, just now the typical left leaning moved across in response to a pain in the right side of my head. it feels like tingling in my physical head/face, but finer than physical tingling and like a pulling sensation or swelling sensation in whatever direction it goes. Its a physical-ish thing, my energy field, part of my body. Its not myself in the same way the body isn't. I suppose I feel like my consciousness inhabits my head so the energy around my head feels conscious, an extension of my conscious head. But that is a conclusion, a story yes.

WHY does that illuminated region feel important?

Its not important its just that I can sense/feel it and can't feel anything on the other side.

Can you find an actual looker there?

No, the looker would be back behind the eyes, but theres nothing there, then attention expands to around the head, theres just conscious awareness.

[graceabounds]

You can feel the left side. You can’t feel the right side.
How does that imply a self?

If one foot is warm and the other foot is cold, does that produce a self?

Or is there simply
* tingling here*
* no tingling there*
with the “me” added afterward as commentary?


Here is an investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labeled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

No, the looker would be back behind the eyes, but theres nothing there

Very good.
Can you find a center from which experience is being experienced?

[Sukie]

f one foot is warm and the other foot is cold, does that produce a self?

Or is there simply
* tingling here*
* no tingling there*
with the “me” added afterward as commentary?

yep, no self, just sensation

2)

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

Theres no connection its learned information that that is my body.
Second time, the connection arose because of micromovements that I saw in the mirror that I connected with the feeling of them.

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

Not much actual connection but there is correspondence between the sensations of movement and the movement in the mirror.
Second time, it seems more trippy, like the hand is just moving.

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

Not finding it easy to separate the sensation from what I can see. I cannot not believe it. The sensation and the visual info correspond and seem to obviously relate to eachother. Before thought, sensation and visual info occur together. Thought then concludes that they are the same thing but I don't see a way out of that.
Second time, sensation and visual info are arising together and before thought. the conclusion that the movement causes the sensation is unavoidable

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

Memory tells me that its my body, that it is a body, when it shifts, there is again correspondence between sensation and visual info which thought takes as proof that it is my body. No part of me is going to shake that belief any time soon I don't think.
Second time, no progress, its me in the mirror

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Dont understand the difference between Knowledge and thoughts, and yes there is both along with the belief that I see me in the mirror. And i can test that belief by waving and watching the reflection wave back.
Second time, I think 'I' am a too familiar object to try this with.

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

Only sensation
Second time, when I ignore all thought, there is only sensation

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Again, all concepts are in thought and ignoring thought, there is only sensation, just like if I closed my eyes there would be no body as far as I could see.

Not getting this sorry

[graceabounds]

Before we continue with more exercises, I’d like to pause.

I’ve noticed something over the course of our dialogue. There are often long gaps between replies, and each time we seem to start almost from the beginning again. The inquiry loses momentum, an exercise is completed sure and another thoughtful report is written, but I don’t get the sense that this investigation is alive for you between our conversations.

It feels more like a hobby than an urgent investigation.

Does that resonate?

Not getting this sorry

Yet in your answers you’ve repeatedly seen things that many people overlook:
* without thought, only sensation is found.
* a separate controller isn’t found.
* “body” is a concept layered onto experience.
* “self” isn’t found in sensation.

But then a thought immediately says, “Yes, but…”

I’m not interested in convincing you that the mirror image isn’t your body. That’s beside the point. You can continue calling it “my body” for the rest of your life. The question has never been whether a body appears.

The question is where is the separate entity that owns it?

Not where should it be or where you imagine it to be. Where is it?

If, after months of looking, it still feels like we’re collecting observations without them becoming a living inquiry, then let’s be honest about that too.

1. Do you actually want to see this more than you want to preserve what you currently believe?
2. What has your looking consisted of during the past month? (Not meditation in general, or youtube gurus, not spiritual practice, this specific investigation.) How often did you genuinely stop during daily life and LOOK for the one who is supposedly living your life?

If the honest answer is that this investigation isn’t a priority right now, that’s completely fine. There is no deadline. But if we’re going to continue, I’d like us to work with what’s actually happening.

[Sukie]

Hi there,

Im sorry i take so long to reply, Im a single mother with two kids, a fulltime job, two dogs, three cats and chickens, and two airbnbs to make ends meet. So, its not that I want this to take so long, its just that there are many other demand s on me.
Also, I think sometimes there is a little fear or resistance. I visit our conversation much more often than I post, often because I dont have time to do the exercises but its not at the back of my mind. I want to do this and I appreciate how quick you are with your responses.

I find looking for 'me' pretty fruitless and hard to stay focussed on as there is nothing to find. I attend Enlightmentment Intensives twice a year so Im not new at this inquiry but there is boredom and irritation at the knowing that there is nothing to find and that has no effect on me.

Ive been practicing presence in daily life, bringing attention back to 'me' while engaged in other things, back to 'choiceless awareness'....a phrase that I felt I could work with.

I dont think I want to preserve my current world view, I feel eager to progress, I have some concern about how an awakening might affect my divorce negotiations ....but I also have trust that all will always be well, as it always has been.

So, what do you think?

[graceabounds]

Thanks for the honesty and vulnerability. This explains a lot of what I was experiencing from here.

The life circumstances may explain the gaps in responding, but they shouldn’t prevent looking. Looking takes seconds, not hours. :)
I can also endeavor to simplify, and give fewer questions so there is less to respond to.

Could you articulate what you are expecting to experience that could affect a divorce in process? What is the fear?

Ive been practicing presence in daily life, bringing attention back to 'me' while engaged in other things, back to 'choiceless awareness

That puts the fiction front and center. I’d like you to stop doing that for now Instead, whenever you remember during the day, ask just one question:

Apart from thought, where is the one this experience is happening to?

Don’t spend more than 10–20 seconds looking. Just stop wherever you are (in the kitchen, at work, during divorce court, feeding the chickens) and look. Don’t settle for a thought or belief that there is no one, actually look.

Either someone is there, or they aren’t.

What do you find?

[Sukie]

Thanks for your understanding and advice, I will practice the looking, it seems to bring me to the same place as 'awareness' but the inquiry is the difference, yes?

As for the divorce, I dont want to have such compassion for my ex that I give away the house, so to speak, hes a demon and will take advantage.

I am grateful for you sticking with me, I see Im not the easiest seeker :)

[graceabounds]

When attention rests as “awareness,” there can still be an unnoticed assumption that someone is aware.
So the inquiry simply asks: is there actually someone there?
If there isn’t, then there isn’t.
If there is, let’s find it.
Nothing more is required.

About the divorce…

Seeing there is no separate self does not mean becoming passive, giving everything away, or failing to set boundaries! Life still responds. Lawyers still negotiate. Agreements are still made. “No” can still be said.

The only thing under investigation here is whether there is an independent entity inside life making it happen.

….And of course if not then there never was and nothing is any different from the way it has always been… ;)

But the only way to find out is to Look.