gibraltar liberation

[Sukie]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have read The Gateless Gate and Awake by Angelo Dilullo and I have an intellectual understanding of the concept that all is one and we are not separate selves. I have also done Enlightenment intensives asking the question, Who am I? However, nothing has gotten me to a direct experience yet. I did begin to feel some doubt and fear and stopped my p

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a direct experience of the true nature of reality. I want liberation. I want an end to the interminable meaninglessness of this apparent world, I want to enjoy my life, find some meaning in it

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would love to be guided to a realisation of my true nature but I fear I may be a hard nut to crack. I'm too clever for my own good is what my mother always said, and I wonder if too much reading around the subject has made me a little immune to some of the pointers I have come across, for example in the books I've read and the youtube videos I've watched, notably Angelo Dilullo and some Non dual teachers

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been a seriuos follower of the yogic path for 5 years now, being initiated by Sadhguru in 2021 and having a sadhana since then. I went to an in person event last year with many techniques that supposedly would wake one up but it didn't work for me. I have been doing self-inquiry, as devised by Charles Berner for about the same time, I have been to one in person Enlightenment Intensive last year and am about to go on my second, I have also done three online. I've read a number of books, many not all the way through and I got part way through A course in Miracles. I think I maybe get scared and find distractions to justify withdrawing from a particular practice. I am enrolled in the Barbara Brennan School, just finishing my first year and this, my yoga practice and the enlightenment intensives I have been consistent with.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[graceabounds]

Hi Sukie,

Thanks for your patience in waiting for a guide, I’d be happy to be present with you in this inquiry if you are ready to begin.

-Becca

[graceabounds]

Hi Sukie,

Glad to hear from you here.

Want to give me an update on anything that you have noticed/explored since posting the answers to the initial questions? Is the intense seeking energy the same?

I think I maybe get scared and find distractions to justify withdrawing from a particular practice

What does this look like? Can you tell me more about the fear response and distractions?

Becca

[Sukie]

I have many books I read, many on awakening, and several gurus I watch on youtube and I cycle between them, or I have many other important things I could be doing and I distract myself, I worry that my limited social skills and circle will be even worse if I follow this path. I wonder if I should be engaging more with others rather than so much online and meditation

[Sukie]

I notice since meditationg and making progress there that i have little small talk when with others. I worry that if I see through this reality and nnone of my firends have that I will have even less to share with them

[graceabounds]

What you’re describing—the cycling between books, gurus, online content, and meditation—is the seeking mechanism feeding on itself. That restlessness is it. That constant pull between “I should be engaging more with others” and I should go deeper into awakening is the dream maintaining itself.

Now stop. Look at the raw experience right now.
Where is the conflict? Where is the one who is torn?

Not in the story. Not in the swirling justifications. Not in the timeline of past progress or future losses…

Here, right now…. what is actually happening?

There’s sensation. There’s thought. There’s emotion.
But is there a you in it? Is there a separate entity experiencing it?

This fear (that your friends won’t understand you, that small talk will vanish, that connection will fade) is built on the assumption that there was someone connecting in the first place. But were you ever connecting from something solid? Or were you always posturing, aligning the self-image to be liked, accepted, or understood?

Wasn’t that already lonely?

Awakening doesn’t reduce connection. It obliterates the false premise behind it. Then only connection remains—raw, effortless, wordless.

So here’s your challenge:
1. Sit with a friend. Don’t prepare anything. Don’t bring your awakened self or your small-talk self. Bring nothing.
2. Say what arises. Or say nothing. Let whatever discomfort comes, come.
3. Watch what the body does. Watch the “shoulds.” Don’t move to fix them. Just sit in them.

Report back. What happens when you drop all strategies, even the strategy of awakening? What do you find?

Do not seek another teaching until you’ve done this. Do not change the subject. :)

(Also consider setting allllll the videos, books and teachings aside for the duration of this exchange. This material will always be someone else’s perspective on what is only recognized by looking here now.)

-Becca

[Sukie]

Hi, sorry for the delay in replying, busy life. I sat and saw what arose, many thoughts initially, the list of things still to do, images from the film I watched the night before. Then fewer thoughts and quiet behind them, the usual buzzing sound that becomes apparent. Then just stillness for moments at a time. The body is used to sitting for meditation so nothing to report there

[graceabounds]

Was this sitting done with a friend?
What specifically was noticed in relationship to there being another person present?

[Sukie]

I don't have someone nearby interested in doing this work although I have done several dyad retreats in the past. Having another person present at those times encouraged self searching, created a non-verbal connection, a sense of approval for anything spoken.

[graceabounds]

Sukie, stop here for a moment.

You’re circling endlessly, right? Books, teachers, practices, intensives, theories. That is the avoidance.

You say you want to wake up, but you keep feeding the idea that awakening is somewhere else, that you need to be better prepared, more supported, more approved of.

Even now you didn’t do the exercise with a friend, you rationalized it. And you described inner quiet like a report card, instead of confronting what’s raw and alive in real relationship.

Can you see the loop?
Wanting approval, fearing disconnection, maintaining an idea of a self that could be “too much” or “not enough.”

Now drop ALL of that.

What remains right now if no more strategies are used?
Not “what should I feel,” but what’s already here before the mind names it.

Look.

Then tell me…was there ever a self to protect, to improve, to wake up?
Or was that the illusion all along?

[Sukie]

When my thoughts lessened, I am still there, with no character, preferences, just there, aware, thoughts are like waves on the beach and I am the beach, I am nothing though, empty

[graceabounds]

Who do the thoughts belong to that are like waves?
Where do they come from?
Where do they go to?

I am nothing though, empty

If there’s nothing, who’s reporting it?
What is aware?

Sit right in that contradiction. No concepts. No fallback. Just raw presence.

Are you still there?

[Sukie]

Thoughts seem to just arise.

Am I still there...I dont know...no personality, I is just defined by thought, without thought theres just a space...waiting for a thought....is it me? I cannot say without jumping back into thought, so without thought maybe there is no me. The space is poised, though, waiting, still

[graceabounds]

Yes. The absence of “you” isn’t an idea… it’s not even absence, it’s just unlocatable when not being thought.

without thought there’s just a space… waiting for a thought

Perfect. Now look directly—> what is waiting? What has the tension of anticipation? Is there anything actually doing the waiting? Or is that just another arising—sensation, subtle tension, a flavor of readiness—that thought then labels as “waiting”?

Strip it of the label. Strip it of “me.” What is actually present?

Don’t answer. Look.

Do not bring in any thought of personality, or identity, or whether this state “means” you’re awake or not. All that is just more of the same—the story. Right now, outside of thinking about it, is there anything separate here?

I is just defined by thought…

Yes. So when no thought is there, what “I” remains? Look again.

Is there a gap? An emptiness? A watcher? A presence?

Look, don’t assume. Then strip the language. Describe what’s left when thought doesn’t arise… not the space around it, not the pause between, but the this that remains.

There’s nothing “to do” with this. Don’t try to hold it. Let it go, then check again.

This space is not “yours.” It’s not sacred. It’s not special. It doesn’t need preserving.

There’s no observer here. No center. Only the habit of reaching back to thought to find one.

So now, when the next thought arises, watch: does it come from a self? Or does it just… arrive?

And be honest—what part of this moment is “you”?

Keep going.

[Sukie]

Hi,
I can't define what's there when theres not a thought, it seems to be filled when a sound arises, the sound seemed to saturate the emptiness, then subside. I hear the high pitched buzzing in my ears, my breath, I can't say that the emptiness has any character or flavour for all that would be thought.
Thought appears, its difficult to spot how, some seem to emerge but many are there before I can see them coming. Thoughts seem to want to distract, its a constant battle to stay in the space
Am I there in the space/emptiness? What feels familiar is there..as the space/emptiness. Its not something separate, just that the emptiness is familiar, comfortable.