Yes Sarah!
That's beautiful.
Great job both of you.
Welcome and I agree with Nomad, please help others see what you see so clearly.
What's left?
Re: What's left?
I'm not convinced Sarah ...
Who is honest here? This is not about analysing, it's about seeing the truth. So a conclusion is not what we need. You need to see this in real life.No. There’s no way. If I am honest with myself, I can only conclude that there is no one living this life, only life living itself through this body-mind. The experience of being an individual remains, and identification with aspects of this experience still happens at times, but looking at this reveals nothing but a conglomeration of thoughts and sensations--no self to be found.
So what is the self. How does the illusion of self happen in practice / in real life? Explain this like to a 5 yo. What are the facts, what are the assumptions ...The illusion of self arises out of a conditioned mental labeling of life processes--patterns of thought, sensation, perception, movement, and so on--that make up subjective experience. This interpretation of experience creates the appearance of a subject--an entity separate from life that seems to be either the puppet of life or the puppeteer (or both). When this process of “selfing” is believed to be an actual self, it feels like there is someone making things happen, or someone to whom things are happening. When the self is seen through, the movie falls apart to reveal the moving frames...sensation, thought, awareness...no self.
The truth is in here not out there
Re: What's left?
Duuude! YesYesYes! Sarah. Something significant has shifted here. Very very happy right now. Beautiful description. So glad I've been able to work with you and be a part of this (although I think just about everyone got a piece) ;) lol!!!
Confirmation from me. Just wicked clear.
Love,
Kian
Confirmation from me. Just wicked clear.
Love,
Kian
Re: What's left?
I really appreciate the feedback, everyone. I have to admit that things have been getting more challenging lately--unresolved material and habitual patterns have been coming up that still need to be worked through. Thoughts and desires arise to push certain things away or get rid of them, to get the clean-up project over with and cross some kind of finish line...but where would this finish line be, and who would cross it? I want to be careful not to rush this, to take my time and make sure this is seen as clearly as possible.
It feels dishonest to keep defending something that I know cannot be true. No evidence of an I has been found in reality. There is no way to prove that it exists. Every thought or feeling of I points to nothing. Yet there is a conflict between this knowing and the thought/behavioral patterns that keep playing themselves out--it feels painful, like being split apart. This can be helpful as a kind of alarm that calls the attention to look closely at what is going on, but lately the tension seems to be hanging around longer. The stories appearing around this (Something is wrong, I screwed up, what should I do, etc.) have created fear and confusion that can be murky and difficult to see through. Writing this out now seems to be helping somewhat, although it can be hard to focus on the writing with so many internal distractions. It can take several hours just to write something like this post.
This is the self in action. Or rather, this is the thought/feeling pattern that creates the illusion of a self. The pattern itself is real--the self is not. It was not there before the pattern arose, and it did not show up afterward. There have only been thoughts, sensations, movements, etc., and they have always been happening on their own. The self-pattern happens in the same way--the only difference is that even though the self it points to does not exist, it is believed to be real...and it is believed to be me.
As an aside: There is a fear that I may not have been completely honest or open about my experience earlier. This was not my intention, and I apologize if I misled anyone. Clarity and confusion seem to come and go, and I do not want to avoid the unfamiliarity and uneasiness around real-life issues. I do not want to pretend to be liberated if I am not, nor to attempt to guide others if I have my own blind spots. I intend to work through this until it is done.
When I mentioned being honest with myself, I meant facing the I-thoughts and seeing them as thoughts, instead of pretending that I exist. There are times when a conditioned pattern is being witnessed as it is happening, and there is a feeling that something false is being held on to--yet the pattern continues. Looking at it, this thing that was being protected is seen to be nothing but another thought, another belief...until the pattern pops up again.Who is honest here? This is not about analysing, it's about seeing the truth. So a conclusion is not what we need. You need to see this in real life.No. There’s no way. If I am honest with myself, I can only conclude that there is no one living this life, only life living itself through this body-mind. The experience of being an individual remains, and identification with aspects of this experience still happens at times, but looking at this reveals nothing but a conglomeration of thoughts and sensations--no self to be found.
It feels dishonest to keep defending something that I know cannot be true. No evidence of an I has been found in reality. There is no way to prove that it exists. Every thought or feeling of I points to nothing. Yet there is a conflict between this knowing and the thought/behavioral patterns that keep playing themselves out--it feels painful, like being split apart. This can be helpful as a kind of alarm that calls the attention to look closely at what is going on, but lately the tension seems to be hanging around longer. The stories appearing around this (Something is wrong, I screwed up, what should I do, etc.) have created fear and confusion that can be murky and difficult to see through. Writing this out now seems to be helping somewhat, although it can be hard to focus on the writing with so many internal distractions. It can take several hours just to write something like this post.
Example: Right now, what is happening in reality is that thoughts, memories, and experiences are being organized and put into words and sentences. Even this is a description constructed after the fact: in the moment, in direct experience, there is simply the flow of whatever is happening--thinking, feeling, typing. In the midst of this flow, a thought may appear that says, “I am doing this.” There may also be a feeling that seems to confirm this, maybe a contracted feeling, that feels like it belongs to “me”. Suddenly, it feels like “I” am now separate from this flow (even though all this “I” stuff is actually part of the flow). This triggers all kinds of thoughts and feelings about how this “I” relates to its experience: Am I doing this right? Should I be doing something else? I’m not good at this. What will they think of me? And so on.So what is the self. How does the illusion of self happen in practice / in real life? Explain this like to a 5 yo. What are the facts, what are the assumptions ...
This is the self in action. Or rather, this is the thought/feeling pattern that creates the illusion of a self. The pattern itself is real--the self is not. It was not there before the pattern arose, and it did not show up afterward. There have only been thoughts, sensations, movements, etc., and they have always been happening on their own. The self-pattern happens in the same way--the only difference is that even though the self it points to does not exist, it is believed to be real...and it is believed to be me.
As an aside: There is a fear that I may not have been completely honest or open about my experience earlier. This was not my intention, and I apologize if I misled anyone. Clarity and confusion seem to come and go, and I do not want to avoid the unfamiliarity and uneasiness around real-life issues. I do not want to pretend to be liberated if I am not, nor to attempt to guide others if I have my own blind spots. I intend to work through this until it is done.
Re: What's left?
Hi Sarah, from what I read, you are pretty clear :) It takes time to resolve all unresolved feelings and drop all old beliefs. None of them dissapear over night. Welcome on board!
Are you on Facebook? Would love if you joined our groups.
Are you on Facebook? Would love if you joined our groups.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: What's left?
Thank you, Ilona. I will keep exploring and allowing this process to unfold in it's own time (even though it's already happening anyway ;-) ).
I am so grateful to everyone who helped me both on and off this forum--thank you all.
And I have to say, Kian (Space), I don't know how I would have gotten this far without you. Thank you for sticking with me and giving me that nudge when I needed it. Much love and gratitude.
I will happily join the LU Groups on Facebook. See you there! ;-)
I am so grateful to everyone who helped me both on and off this forum--thank you all.
And I have to say, Kian (Space), I don't know how I would have gotten this far without you. Thank you for sticking with me and giving me that nudge when I needed it. Much love and gratitude.
I will happily join the LU Groups on Facebook. See you there! ;-)
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