What's left?

[Sarah]

Hi there :-)

Great website—I really appreciate the work you all are doing here.

So in the months leading up to my arrival here, I’ve done quite a bit of reading, gotten help from the Ruthless Truth Arena, Nexus and elsewhere, read blogs by Elena, Ilona, and others, and took time to look on my own. I don’t know whether anyone can help me at this point…yet here I am, looking for guidance, because I can’t seem to stop seeking. For what, I don’t even know.

Although I feel like some things have cleared up in the process, there is still a sense of doubt, or lack of clarity, or something, about what I’ve seen. I can’t find a self anywhere, just thoughts, sensations, perceptions, etc. that seem to masquerade as a self. No “I” actually making them happen, and no “me” that they are happening to. Just whatever is happening, right now. The “I” only seems to appear when I take the situation apart mentally, trying to make life into some kind of stable entity that can fit into a conceptual box. In real life, there is just this flow, whatever it is. Nothing to hold on to…any idea or label isn’t it. Just this.

That’s fine, but when the same habitual patterns keep playing out day after day, and hours still go by questioning this inertia and lack of ambition and wondering what is going to get things done in life if “I” don’t, and so on…I wonder if I’ve seen it fully. I know that I can’t expect a lifetime of conditioning to vanish overnight, and I can see that none of this is personal, yet…when I’m asked to explain liberation to someone…I just don’t seem to have the clarity and certainty about this that you liberated people do.

I don’t know if this is about not looking deeply enough, or unrealistic expectations, or what…I’m just not sure what to do at this point. I just keep looking, and I see what’s here.

So what’s left?

[No_One]

Welcome Sarah. Well ... let's see what is and then we can talk about what's left. How is the illusion of self created? Can you see how this is done in real life. How does this come from fear to 'I am afraid', from moving your hand to 'I move my hand'? Just look now at those actions and write how it happens

Also, what are your expectations about this? What would life have to be to be 'done'?

[Ilona]

Hi Sarah.
Thanks for joining in.
Tell me, is there a you that doubt appears to? What is doubt itself? Can you ask that doubt to come closer and examine it. Write what you see that doubt is and how it works. Don't try to push it away, rather accep it and see what wisdom it can reveal.

[Sarah]

When a feeling arises or my hand moves, I find that I can't trace the impulse back to anything, except maybe that it was triggered by something, somewhere in the environment, inside or outside. But this interpretation is constructed after the fact--when the feeling or movement happens, that's all there is. Then the story arises...this is mine, I did this, I have to make this happen, I can't let this happen...

I feel like so much of this doubt is about control, and the fear of losing control...control I never had anyway. Who or what would control anything? A thought? A feeling? No...some kind of invisible hidden self I can't find? I can see that life doesn't need more than perhaps a sense of self to function...I can see this in animals, in other forms of life...I can see people moving on autopilot, I can see myself doing this...so why the fear of losing something, why the tenacious belief? I think it has to do with a lingering fear of this tendency I have to get stuck in passivity and mind-wandering...this fear of what might happen if "I" don't make "myself" do things, that I might fall into the temptation to be completely detached and withdrawn from the world...even though when I look at it, I can see that it doesn't really make sense...just more thought...

As far as expectations go, I don't expect any miracles--I would just like to be more clear, less caught up in distractions, less insecure and inhibited in life. I'm tired of seeing people suffer and not being able to help them in any meaningful way (not that they necessarily need me, or that I know what's best for them). I'm tired of feeling like I'm not living my life fully, constantly questioning what I'm doing and where I'm going. I want to be grounded in knowing the truth of what I am, instead of living with this constant unease. Hopefully then I'll be able to help others and be of some use in this world.

[No_One]

I think it has to do with a lingering fear of this tendency I have to get stuck in passivity and mind-wandering...this fear of what might happen if "I" don't make "myself" do things, that I might fall into the temptation to be completely detached and withdrawn from the world...even though when I look at it, I can see that it doesn't really make sense...just more thought...

Yeah ... great point there.

As far as expectations go, I don't expect any miracles--I would just like to be more clear, less caught up in distractions, less insecure and inhibited in life. I'm tired of seeing people suffer and not being able to help them in any meaningful way (not that they necessarily need me, or that I know what's best for them). I'm tired of feeling like I'm not living my life fully, constantly questioning what I'm doing and where I'm going. I want to be grounded in knowing the truth of what I am, instead of living with this constant unease. Hopefully then I'll be able to help others and be of some use in this world.

What's wrong with insecurity? What's wrong in suffering? You seem also to want to do the right thing. Who wants to do that? Is there some 'good girl' identification there? Who defines what's good and bad? You also say you want to 'be of some use in this world'. Is there hope for another one? Who would go to another world?

[Sarah]

What's wrong with insecurity? What's wrong in suffering? You seem also to want to do the right thing. Who wants to do that? Is there some 'good girl' identification there? Who defines what's good and bad?

I see what you're saying, and the "good girl" conditioning has been pointed out to me before. There's a lot of stuff here that's been with me for a long time, but I guess the core story comes down to a fear of hurting myself or other people, either because of what I have done or what I have not done. This is combined with a feeling of "not enough"--for example, not doing enough to prevent this from happening. There is also the sense of not having lived up to my full potential, not being fully engaged in life.

You also say you want to 'be of some use in this world'. Is there hope for another one? Who would go to another world?

Just to clarify: what I meant was that I want to be useful while I'm alive--I didn't mean it in a spiritual sense or anything like that. But that's a good point...whose life ends, if there is always and only life? Who is there to be useful or not? I can see this habit of treating life as if it were separate, something on which to impose my ideas of "usefulness".

Now, I can see that all these habits are arising out of millions of conditions in life and that none of this has anything to do with me, but I still feel a sense of responsibility to do something about my dysfunctional habits before they cause any more damage. Back and forth, a constant tug of war between seeing that there is no doer and wondering what I should do. Then another battle between pushing myself to do things and avoiding things. It's hard to get in touch with a more natural movement, one that is not struggling to control or "spacing out".

I don't know what to do with all of this except to see it for what it is...nothing to identify with, no way to know what is "good" and "bad"...but it doesn't seem to sink in. When I look at it, it all gets fuzzy in my head. It shifts and changes, comes and goes. I guess it just goes to show how insubstantial all of this is, like a dream...but it's hard for me to even describe what is happening in words, let alone to see what is still holding on.

Sorry for rambling...

[Ilona]

it's really good what you are writing.
The easiest way to punch a hole into conditioning is by staring right at the core, there is no you at all. life is just happening.
take a walk outside, notice nature how everything is in motion, wiggles, effortlesly. is your body outside enviroment or is it part of it? just observe the totallity and then look if there is observer there at all.
write abaout the experience and write a lot. in full..

[Ross K.]

drop all the stuff of how "you" relate to the "world".
right now let it all drop.
drop everything until there is nothing left.
then drop that.
empty.
no up, no down, and no sides.
no center, and,
no "I"
just this, is,
such.

[Sarah]

The easiest way to punch a hole into conditioning is by staring right at the core, there is no you at all. life is just happening.
take a walk outside, notice nature how everything is in motion, wiggles, effortlesly. is your body outside enviroment or is it part of it? just observe the totallity and then look if there is observer there at all.
write abaout the experience and write a lot. in full..

It seems like sometimes I see this more clearly, and other times I don't. Looking at nature, observing thoughts, feelings--life is just happening on its own, looking is happening, experience is happening, nothing personal. Then at other times, there is a sense of grasping, contraction--wanting to understand, wanting to be understood by others. Feeling tired of doubt and confusion about the self, tired of being deceived by thoughts. Then wondering--isn't this supposed to be simple? Is being deceived really a problem, or is it only a problem when it is believed that someone is being deceived?

drop all the stuff of how "you" relate to the "world".
right now let it all drop.
drop everything until there is nothing left.
then drop that.
empty.
no up, no down, and no sides.
no center, and,
no "I"
just this, is,
such.

The impulse to do just this arose earlier today. ;-) The question that came was, "When everything that can be doubted is let go of, what remains?" In response to this question I get nothing, except..what is. Just whatever is happening. Thoughts, sensations, including uncomfortable ones, like contraction...they may be uncomfortable, but it appears that they only become a problem when I think about them and how they relate to "me."

Still, there is a lingering sense of fear, and with this fear, thoughts arise like "Isn't there anything that can be done about these deceptive thoughts and dysfunctional habits? When is the truth going to sink in?" Even as I am writing this and trying to see these thoughts for what they really are, there is a gut-wrenching urgency that arises (actually felt as a physical contraction) to be done with this and have total clarity. Just more sensations and thoughts, at least until being deceived happens again...

Or perhaps what needs to be seen has already been seen, and the rest is just a bunch of thoughts and imaginary problems...?

[No_One]

Still, there is a lingering sense of fear, and with this fear, thoughts arise like "Isn't there anything that can be done about these deceptive thoughts and dysfunctional habits? When is the truth going to sink in?" Even as I am writing this and trying to see these thoughts for what they really are, there is a gut-wrenching urgency that arises (actually felt as a physical contraction) to be done with this and have total clarity. Just more sensations and thoughts, at least until being deceived happens again...

Or perhaps what needs to be seen has already been seen, and the rest is just a bunch of thoughts and imaginary problems...?

Really good stuff there Sarah. Really good ... so you got the solution earlier. When fear arises, just look at fear. When a thought there should be something more just look at that thought. And even when deceived ... do you exist? Even when the feeling there is an I is there, does it stand for a real I?

[Matt]

"Isn't there anything that can be done about these deceptive thoughts and dysfunctional habits? .... Just more sensations and thoughts, at least until being deceived happens again...

Being deceived would require a gullible 'i'.
Doing something about deceptive thoughts would require a doer 'i'.
Show us some evidence that there is such an entity!
If none can be found—decisively, perhaps the thought-pattern change or will be seen differently.

Or perhaps what needs to be seen has already been seen, and the rest is just a bunch of thoughts and imaginary problems...?

Sounds pretty accurate. Nothing else to see
You're doing great; keep returning to the investigation.
It's going to be exciting to hear you settling the issue once and for all!

[Sarah]

I don’t know what to look for anymore. What is there to find? Whenever I try to come to some kind of final resolution, tension and confusion returns. It must be because there is really nothing there--nothing to grasp, no one to grasp anything. Just life...just this, whatever this is...nothing else.

My mind keeps asking, how can I live in peace without figuring things out, without solving problems? If everything falls apart and I lose my home and starve to death, won’t that be a problem? But in all honesty, I have no idea what it would be like to be in such a situation, or what would happen, or what “I” would do. If it happens, it happens, and I will see how it unfolds. What else is there to do? There might be a story of how I’ve failed, created suffering for myself and let other people down...but in reality, what is there? Just what is happening. A difficult situation, but it doesn’t mean anything about “me”. No one chooses these things--they just happen.

It’s about time I came to terms with this: I can’t know anything for certain. I can’t control anything. I can see the futility of struggling with this, to make something out of this as if “me” and “this” were separate, fixed entities. Do I exist? Nothing--no thing--exists, except existence. Even that thought isn’t it. There is no “it”. There are appearances, and one of those appearances is that I make things happen. This appearance may have some practical value in the world of appearances, but if I actually believe that it’s up to me to make sure that the “right” thing happens, then there is confusion, anxiety, frustration...because there is no one apart from life to make life happen the “right” way! It doesn’t even make sense! Choices appear to happen, and some may seem better than others for the functioning of this organism...but whatever happens, it’s all part of the flow of life, happening on its own, like changing weather...nothing to do with me.

Change happens. It is the way of life. I don’t have to do anything. Sure, there are practical things to be done in the world, but life can’t help but move Sarah as it will. It will get done, or it won’t. Either way, life doesn’t need me to do what it does. It never did.

Because I was never here in the first place.

[No_One]

Really good message there Sarah. Happy to see that. Could you try to give very detailed answers to the following questions? Leave us without a doubt :)
1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of self is and how it works.
3) How does it feel to be liberated? What's the difference between before and after liberation? What made you see this, what was the final push for you?

[Sarah]

Thank you for asking these questions, No One. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this and to practice communicating these realizations. This took a while...it feels much easier for me to see this intuitively than to put it into words, but perhaps that’s why this process is so helpful.

Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No. There’s no way. If I am honest with myself, I can only conclude that there is no one living this life, only life living itself through this body-mind. The experience of being an individual remains, and identification with aspects of this experience still happens at times, but looking at this reveals nothing but a conglomeration of thoughts and sensations--no self to be found.

Explain in detail what the illusion of self is and how it works.

The illusion of self arises out of a conditioned mental labeling of life processes--patterns of thought, sensation, perception, movement, and so on--that make up subjective experience. This interpretation of experience creates the appearance of a subject--an entity separate from life that seems to be either the puppet of life or the puppeteer (or both). When this process of “selfing” is believed to be an actual self, it feels like there is someone making things happen, or someone to whom things are happening. When the self is seen through, the movie falls apart to reveal the moving frames...sensation, thought, awareness...no self.

How does it feel to be liberated? What’s the difference between before and after liberation?

Life goes on more or less the same without me (it always had!), but there is a vague sense of the old gradually falling to make way for the new. Sometimes becoming totally absorbed in an activity without the sense of a doer happens...other times, confused thoughts, distractions, and contracted experiences happen...but the habit of struggling to grasp these experiences or make them into personal problems that need to be solved is being seen through as the stories are broken down into the bare reality of what is happening. Not how “I” relate to an uncomfortable feeling situation, or what it means about “me”. Just what is happening, and what can be done about it, if anything, in this moment. That’s it. This is all there is.

The urge to seek something other than this seems to be loosening its grip as well. For a long time I’ve had a seemingly insatiable appetite for nonduality material from books, blogs, etc. Especially if restlessness or confusion arose, I would read and reread pointer after pointer as if the perfect words at the right time could somehow get the truth to sink in. Yet I’ve noticed that lately, reading these writings may happen occasionally, but the need to fix something that feels broken or fill something that feels missing seems to be fading. Being here, with whatever is happening, feels like enough for now.

What made you see this, what was the final push for you?

Wow...so many pointers from so many places helped lead to this. If I had to narrow it down though, I would say the key was in the clearing away of concepts and expectations. Pointing out that “awareness” and “direct experience” were not somewhere hidden underneath all my internal noise, that this was always and already here, and that I didn’t have to struggle to look because this is all there is. Being nudged (again and again) to look at what I expected liberation to be, and surrendering to the possibility of being free from needing to meet expectations. And finally, being reminded that freedom is for everyone, that truth is simple, that it doesn’t require anything except the honesty and the courage to keep going, to look for this phantom in reality until it is seen that there was never anything to find.

[Damon Kamda]

Sarah! That's the some of the clearest writing I've seen in a long time. Amazing.

So that's a confirm from me.

Please tell me you're going to stick with us and help guide others to this recognition. Please... ;-)