"I dont think the thought that the experience is mine always comes after the experience. Say for example when i hear a sound i wouldnt think of myself hearing the sound. But if you ask me "is that you who is hearing the sound?" i will say yes. "
When you are breathing, are thoughts always coming about your breathing?
Take a look at the numbers again- even with remembering, does it always have an 'I' component to it?
Look at something around you that creates some feeling in your body. Lets say you feel happy. Is it you that is feeling it? (you might want to answer the last question in this post for this)
Answers to the rock exercise please.
Repeating the question: What is 'I' for you? What is the difference between self/I/you/me?
Step in if you're ready
Re: Step in if you're ready
No the thoughts about breathing almost never come.
From what I feel, the numbers come more like 4!, 6!, 11! than I know 4!
If I try to jot down a whole lot of numbers quickly, they appear sort of themselves without any thinking about 'I'.
I thought about the 'I' and experience. What i felt was this: Experiences do exist. Thoughts do exist. Emotions also exist.
I is also a thought just like any other. I reflected upon this question for quite a while and that is the best i can answer. As for the difference between self/i/me/you, that is just grammar.
From the rock exercise, I get a sense that we all become sort of hold on to our experiences, like we held on to 'my' rock. We personalise it and worry about it, even though, experiences can be treated just like rocks, without any attachment.
From what I feel, the numbers come more like 4!, 6!, 11! than I know 4!
If I try to jot down a whole lot of numbers quickly, they appear sort of themselves without any thinking about 'I'.
I thought about the 'I' and experience. What i felt was this: Experiences do exist. Thoughts do exist. Emotions also exist.
I is also a thought just like any other. I reflected upon this question for quite a while and that is the best i can answer. As for the difference between self/i/me/you, that is just grammar.
From the rock exercise, I get a sense that we all become sort of hold on to our experiences, like we held on to 'my' rock. We personalise it and worry about it, even though, experiences can be treated just like rocks, without any attachment.
Re: Step in if you're ready
I like all your answers :)
So you see how we own experiences?
When there is really no we, it's just a thought that we own it :)
Now try to find the self in your direct experience.
Close your eyes for a moment. Think about how everything is constructed- its a thought that its a computer in front of you. In reality it's a chunk of matter. Everything around you is essentially, that. Take it in. Sink into it. Slow your breathing.
Open your eyes. Just see. What do you see?
Are you just seeing or are you seeing something
So you see how we own experiences?
When there is really no we, it's just a thought that we own it :)
Now try to find the self in your direct experience.
Close your eyes for a moment. Think about how everything is constructed- its a thought that its a computer in front of you. In reality it's a chunk of matter. Everything around you is essentially, that. Take it in. Sink into it. Slow your breathing.
Open your eyes. Just see. What do you see?
Are you just seeing or are you seeing something
Re: Step in if you're ready
Yesterday i was just sitting around and went over the random numbers exercise again and i realized that when you think about numbers you are only thinking about them. It is kinda difficult to hold thoughts like "I know.." etc. simultaneously.
I had some difficulty with this exercise. I get what you are saying about the world being constructed. Everything is just matter. Right. This device is just there as it is; "matter", before it is a computer. But I find it really difficult to just not think about it as being separate from an idea of computer.
I tried doing this while on a stroll. I realized whenever i look at anything labels, like "road", "leaves", "very far", "near", "lamp post" jump at me, even though i am trying to not think about it. I think it is somewhat like pointing at rocks. You know, pointing at the rock becomes the only thing you are thinking about rather than the rock itself.
I had some difficulty with this exercise. I get what you are saying about the world being constructed. Everything is just matter. Right. This device is just there as it is; "matter", before it is a computer. But I find it really difficult to just not think about it as being separate from an idea of computer.
I tried doing this while on a stroll. I realized whenever i look at anything labels, like "road", "leaves", "very far", "near", "lamp post" jump at me, even though i am trying to not think about it. I think it is somewhat like pointing at rocks. You know, pointing at the rock becomes the only thing you are thinking about rather than the rock itself.
Re: Step in if you're ready
Yes!
The I know, only comes after the thought, "I know". Otherwise, there just is.
Look at how you do it to your own life.
You are walking, if you suddenly trip and fall would you blame yourself?
Is it you that is walking or is walking happening?
When you're tripping are you thinking about how 'you' are tripping?
The I know, only comes after the thought, "I know". Otherwise, there just is.
Look at how you do it to your own life.
You are walking, if you suddenly trip and fall would you blame yourself?
Is it you that is walking or is walking happening?
When you're tripping are you thinking about how 'you' are tripping?
Re: Step in if you're ready
I tried to see this, but its not working out...Is it you that is walking or is walking happening?
I have a feeling that I am only seeing things intellectually and not at an experential level, but here is what i think: We have all kinds of thought and one thought especially very strongly held: that it is "I" who is deciding everything. I just cant shake it off. When we are walking this feeling might occur again that it is you who is leading the body but then again thoughts are thoughts. The experience of walking stands there like a rock, and you can either get worked up about it or just observe it i guess.....
Re: Step in if you're ready
"But I find it really difficult to just not think about it as being separate from an idea of computer. "
It is just a thought that it is hard :)
Can you see something intellectually? Or can you just see :)
Let us say, you are walking. Are you constantly thinking, "I am walking" ?
When you were a baby, and started walking, did you think, "I am walking"
When you were a baby and your mom tried to feed you, could she predict whether in that moment you were going to take in the food or spit it out?
can you control wanting or not wanting something and acting on it?
Does that mean it is you who is wanting?
You go to a shop to get some ice cream. Can you control liking chocolate?
Is it 'you' who is liking chocolate, or does it happen on it's own?
Is liking chocolate your identity?
It is just a thought that it is hard :)
Can you see something intellectually? Or can you just see :)
Let us say, you are walking. Are you constantly thinking, "I am walking" ?
When you were a baby, and started walking, did you think, "I am walking"
When you were a baby and your mom tried to feed you, could she predict whether in that moment you were going to take in the food or spit it out?
can you control wanting or not wanting something and acting on it?
Does that mean it is you who is wanting?
You go to a shop to get some ice cream. Can you control liking chocolate?
Is it 'you' who is liking chocolate, or does it happen on it's own?
Is liking chocolate your identity?
Re: Step in if you're ready
Sorry for such a late reply....
No I can surely not control whether or not i like a thing.
I thought over this and it this is what i think: Liking chocolate happens. Then there is a story attached to it about you liking the chocolate because it is so good or so sweet. Infact, it is easy to see that (and I i sort of notice it more these days) that without any deliberate thought a lot of action takes place. But still I cant shake of the sense of control over body by the self.
No I can surely not control whether or not i like a thing.
I thought over this and it this is what i think: Liking chocolate happens. Then there is a story attached to it about you liking the chocolate because it is so good or so sweet. Infact, it is easy to see that (and I i sort of notice it more these days) that without any deliberate thought a lot of action takes place. But still I cant shake of the sense of control over body by the self.
Re: Step in if you're ready
Great- wanting happens.
Thoughts about the experience come after the experience.
Breathing happens. Whether the breath is short or warm is a story that is created by thought.
Some thoughts are useful- like the thought that your breath is short indicates that your breath is short.
If I ask you to imagine a purple flying cat though- are you able to? Is that real?
Are all thoughts real?
Can you control thoughts? Can you stop thoughts from coming? Can you change your thoughts? Or is the thought to change the thought another thought?
Take a look at your direct experience- your senses.
When you see, are you trying to see 'something'.
Is the some 'thing' real or is it in actuality constructed by thoughts?
For example, a chair is a chunk of matter which we call wood which we then shape into something and give it a name and function. Is a chair a chair in actuality or is it constructed by thoughts?
Is a 'thing' as separate- actual or constructed by thoughts?
So when you are seeing, are you seeing something or are you just seeing?
Just close your eyes. Open them. What do you see as soon as your eyes open - i.e before they are conditioned to 'focus' on 'something'
Thoughts about the experience come after the experience.
Breathing happens. Whether the breath is short or warm is a story that is created by thought.
Some thoughts are useful- like the thought that your breath is short indicates that your breath is short.
If I ask you to imagine a purple flying cat though- are you able to? Is that real?
Are all thoughts real?
Can you control thoughts? Can you stop thoughts from coming? Can you change your thoughts? Or is the thought to change the thought another thought?
Take a look at your direct experience- your senses.
When you see, are you trying to see 'something'.
Is the some 'thing' real or is it in actuality constructed by thoughts?
For example, a chair is a chunk of matter which we call wood which we then shape into something and give it a name and function. Is a chair a chair in actuality or is it constructed by thoughts?
Is a 'thing' as separate- actual or constructed by thoughts?
So when you are seeing, are you seeing something or are you just seeing?
Just close your eyes. Open them. What do you see as soon as your eyes open - i.e before they are conditioned to 'focus' on 'something'
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