Hi, guide needed:-)

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

I also experience a sensation, but it is not around my forehead. It is more around the top-left as well as top-right parts of the head - those parts that some people touch when "oh my good, what I did!" moment happens. That sensation is almost always experienced - when seeing, speaking, hearing, thinking is happening and it is noticed. It is not associated with thinking exclusively.

In direct experience it is only a sensation.

Btw. It is amazing and a mystery that sensations, thoughts are not tangible and although they are experienced somehow. They are like shadows:-)

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter.

Good. So is it seen that the sensation itself has nothing to do with the actual "thinking" or seeing or speaking? I think you are already saying that you do, but just confirming.

What about the "me" then? Do you think something similar may be happening? You said in an earlier post that the me, seems to be in the head. Is there a particular feeling or even emotion (or both) that may be being mistaken as "me"??
Close your eyes and see if you can locate that feeling of "me" living somewhere in the body. If not present at that moment you can use memory to remember other times when the I seemed to be really, really, real. Once you find the sensation, have a good look. Is this sensation you? Can you be a sensation? What about the senation says in direct experience that is me?

Btw. It is amazing and a mystery that sensations, thoughts are not tangible and although they are experienced somehow. They are like shadows:-)

This is a very interesting point to explore further Peter. Here are a couple of questions to consider;

1. Are objects or the body really more tangible than thoughts or sensations? Are they really that different when you look at them from direct experience?

2. Do you ever experience objects or the body as anything other than sensations?

Much love

Silvia

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

...I have no answers. Always when I answer or doing looking from direct experience it leads to "me". It does not help to see what you or Elena or Ilona or other guys say, that "me" is only a thought. The effect is the opposite, this process just helps to keep the game going. Everything what is read regarding this kind of practice or about enligthement, awaking keep separation going. Statements or quotes such as "There is no You, it is only Life lifeing." or "This is it." bring feeling of separation or in other words it is focusing on the separation. - "Hey, you! You overlook something." You, that does not exist vs. everything.

People who have recognized the Truth say, there is nothing to do. It will happen on its own. ...and those same people were searching for many years, hearing the same things again and again, so it seems they finally accepted it in order to finish the pressure. It is the same as you would tell me that I am a monkey until I accept it. ...I would fight again you, but finally I will "accept" it in order to make you silent.

You say: Do not have any expectation! ...but there is still an expectation that motivates to continue the process - "After I recognize the Truth, everything will be good because perception will change." Why do I believe in it? ...only because of you, Elena, Ilona, Adyashanti, Tolle and many other that report that. You see the point? It is like to say: Do not have any expectation about this product. and then to say: The product will help you.

Now I am curious about your response. I am awaiting something like: "Go away! If you are not with us, you are against us! We do not want nothing common with you."

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hey Peter,

I'm quite surprised by your answers Peter. It's like all along we have been having 2 completely different conversations.

It is the same as you would tell me that I am a monkey until I accept it. ...I would fight again you, but finally I will "accept" it in order to make you silent.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this Peter. I'm not asking you to accept anything from me or anyone else. I don't want you to "believe" any of what I say. I've said this many times. I only encourage you to investigate your own experience so you can realise it for yourself.

You say: Do not have any expectation! ...but there is still an expectation that motivates to continue the process - "After I recognize the Truth, everything will be good because perception will change.

What makes the process continue is not expectations but I wish to see the truth. Once the truth it's seen, the seeking stops. And I've never, ever, ever said to you that everything will be good. Quite the contrary, I've even warned you that it can bring up difficutl feelings. Re-read the disclaimer on the LU home page and then look again at what you wrote. You'll see that right there is where you're imposing your own expectations on this.


I would encourage you to go back to the very beginning of this thread and read through all the posts. Really read what is being said with an open mind. There have been a few times when you've got really close to crossing the gate, but then resistance, fear, happened and you run away. So I would pay particular attention to those moments and reflect on why and what happened. What is your motivation for being here doing this? Be very honest with yourself about it. What do you want? What is your heart's deepest wish?

Silvia x

Perhaps

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Also ask yourself, what feels pressure, what accepts, what feels separate, what feels frustrated, what is curious, what has expectations ?

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

What I want? To get a punch from you and wake up:-D Hit me with a stick, please:-))

The deepest wish? To stop to suffer.

What feels pressure, what accepts...? Me.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

What feels pressure, what accepts...? Me.

So you've looked and you've found yourself to exist as a separate autonomous entity, that feels, accepts and thinks and feels and does and all the rest. Ok, cool. If that is what you find when you look, then that is the way things are. Why do you want me to convince you the opposite is true? Why is it a problem? I say the self, I, me are illusions. Why should you believe me? Why should you want to believe me in the first place?

[PeterCs]

I do not know why to believe you. When I was a child I believed adults - parents, grandparents. I assumed that they had more experienced because of their age, they knew what was good, wrong. I did not question that. Later, when I became older, I saw that adults, old people... we all are on the same ship. For example, when you say to an old person that he/she is special, you like him/her, they are happy like a child. I thought that having good job, money, house, a car, own family bring happiness, but it was and see it is not true. ...the things are not that way it was told to me.

I came to the point when I did not really know how to be as person. My mum expected me to be successful. My ex-schoolmates think, once I will be a director of a company. I think I should be strong, brave, smart, ongoing, have a nice body. This brought a lot of suffer with some pleasure moments time-to-time. I read books about positive thinking, I had sessions with psychologists, read spiritual books, saw many "spiritual" videos, but nothing helped. It is sure that something is wrong. I do not want to waste time living this way, but on the other hand I am trembling because of the fear. Every single day my mind is busy and looking for what to do.

I was lying to you through this process. I wanted to fix things and I hoped that seeing what "me" really is, will help. When you asked me something I knew what to answer. I intelectually understand the "me" concept and I read several books that gave me answers. I wanted you to give me questions because I was waiting for the "right" question, that will hit "me". I know that I should not have had the expectations, but I was/am addicted somehow to this "awakening" thing.

What do you feel about that?

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter,

I was lying to you through this process. I wanted to fix things and I hoped that seeing what "me" really is, will help. When you asked me something I knew what to answer. I intelectually understand the "me" concept and I read several books that gave me answers. I wanted you to give me questions because I was waiting for the "right" question, that will hit "me". I know that I should not have had the expectations, but I was/am addicted somehow to this "awakening" thing.

I'd say you were lying to yourself more than anything Peter... I warned you from the very beginning that this is was not going to fix anything. You are still chasing the fantasy that you can become an improved version of yourself. Most people would say they want enlightenment, but only because they imagine that the will go from being "me" to being "me" + eternal bliss - problems. But that's a fantasy! That's why a lot of people run for the hills when they realise what this enlightenment stuff is really all about. Most prefer to hold on to the fantasy. The truth is enlightenment is the biggest disappointment. Because "you" will never become enlightened. There is no-one to become enlightened and there is no-one to not become enlightened. That is enlightenment :-). So from the point of view of the illusory self is really not something very desirable.

That's why I stressed motivation at the very beginning. If you're main motivation is to get rid of "your" suffering, then you will be chasing your own tail. Because suffering is in the first place the resistance to pain or unpleasant conditions. So the more you avoid and resist suffering the stronger you make it. World becomes smaller and smaller. Right now what "you" really are is completely free, complete and free of suffering. But this is only seen when you stop running away from suffering and embrace the whole spectrum of experience. Taht is another way of thinking of enlightenment, not so much freedom from suffering, but freedom to be with whatever arises. But paradoxically that freedom only comes when we stop fighting the "unpleasant" things in life. Honestly and truly.

The truth that there is no separate self has to resonate with you at some level. It has to ring true. It is no good trying to believe in it just because you think that somehow it's going to get rid of all your problems.

What do you feel about that?

The question is, how do you feel about that?

I think now would be a good time to take a break. We've been going for 13 pages and I think you should reflect a bit on all this. No good carrying on repeating the same things all over if you are not clear on what your real motivation is . Also I've just started a new course as well as job and need some time to organise myself around my new routine. Plus my parents are coming down to London this Friday! So I need a break too.

Like I asked you on my last post, go through and re-read this thread and really reflect on what has been said. Both yours and my answers. Write down what resonated with you most. Anything that felt true for you.
You may decide this is not what you need right now. And that's fine too.

If you decide you want to continue, then anytime after the 3rd October would be good for me to retake things.

Much love
Silvia x

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

How are you? I would like to continue the "process". Will you help and guide me, please?

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter,

I hear you've contacted another guide. I hope that goes well for you. Realistically I don't think I'll be able to continue guiding until I finish my course anyway.

I'd suggest that you try to be as honest as possible with your new guide, but above all with yourself.

Good luck with it and all the best.
Silvia

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

thank you for your reply. I am sorry if I caused any confusion. Also I would like to THANK you for your guiding, patience and support. I wish you all the best!

Peter