Hi, guide needed:-)

[PeterCs]

Hi, I would like to be guided. ...my name is Peter, 27 year old, from Slovakia.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hello Peter,

Welcome. What brings you here? How did you come accross this site?

Silvia

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

thanks for you reply.

What brings me here? I would like to see, recognize the same what people like you see. They say that "ME" is a only believe and I would like to check it out. I have read several books, watched many videos on youtube and it, somehow, brought here me, to LU site...

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Ok, so this is our woking agreement Peter.

If you haven't already please read the disclaimer on the homepage:http://www.liberationunleashed.com/?

1. You agree to post once a day, time permitting.
2. I will post questions, which prompt your investigation and answers.
3. When you answer/report, please do so with 100% honestly and answer from what you see,
4. and when you do answer, please answer from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

If you agree to these then we can get started! :)

What do you think life will be like once you've seen through the illusion of self?
What's your main motivation for wanting to see through this illusion?
What things do you think will change?
What things will remain the same?

There's no right or wrong answer. Just be as honest and candid as you can about your expectations

Love
Silvia

[PeterCs]

I have already read the disclaimer + seen the video there; learned to use the quote function. I agree with the points and so let’s start.

What do you think life will be like once you've seen through the illusion of self? - Everything will be clear.
What's your main motivation for wanting to see through this illusion? - To enjoy life and get rid of my blocks - for example I want to go for a walk, but I will not do that, because of fear - what if someone will attack me on the street or laugh at me.
What things do you think will change? The way I see things. For example I will not quit my job, instead of that I will perform my work in a different way - I will be more communicative, more open to people; being rebelious..
What things will remain the same? - I have no clue. It's blank.

Now I experience a thought that says the answers above are not true.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your answers.

Everything will be clear.

Could you say a bit more about what you mean by this?

To enjoy life and get rid of my blocks - for example I want to go for a walk, but I will not do that, because of fear - what if someone will attack me on the street or laugh at me.

Could you tell me a bit more about these fear? Does it affect any other areas on your daily life?

I will perform my work in a different way - I will be more communicative, more open to people; being rebelious..

Seeing throught the illusion of a separate self can be very liberating, but it won't change things like your personality. You won't become and improved version of "you" because there is already no "you" in the first place. You won't suddenly become the person you may think you'd like to be. When you realise Santa doesn't exist, what changes? Nothing, because there never was a Santa to begin with. All that changed is the belief. So it is with the self.

There is not guarantee that your blocks will disappear and it's not a substitute for therapy. If you are struggling with strong fears around certain areas, it might be a good idea to talk to someone qualified before you go ahead with this. Because seeing through the illusion can also be unsettling, even destabilizing.

How does all this sound? Do you feel you'd still like to go ahead with this? Do you have a thirst for the truth even if it doesn't fit your expectations?

Best wishes

Silvia xx

PS. If you haven't yet read Gateless Gatecrashers, the book explaining the process of direct pointing that we follow here, you can download it here http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_Books.html.

[PeterCs]

Good morning, Silvia!

I have just read the first 7 transcripts of guided liberation (Philip, Shane, Bruno, Jane, Jamie, Eric, Michael) and it brought more clarity about what I really want. Only thing I want is to see, recognize, there is no "ME", in other words - to see if "ME" really exists or not, check it. ...and yes, there is a thirst for the truth even if it doesn't fit my expectations.

Going straight forward and focus on it: right now I am watching this writing & reading, listening sounds from outside, having a certain feeling in my stomach, feeling to be a bit thirsty... it seems to be all about me. When I try to find that "ME". There is a sense/thought/feeling - I do not know how to call it - that says: It must be me here! There must be here someone! This and that feeling, experience is a prove of it! ...if there would not be you, who would feel what is felt right now? It is an automatic reply if someone asks me question "Do you exist / Are you?"

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Good morning Peter,

yes, there is a thirst for the truth even if it doesn't fit my expectations.

That's excellent. So let's continue!

You've more or less answered this already, but what happens when you read


Describe your reactions. Thoughts and emotions

right now I am watching this writing & reading, listening sounds from outside, having a certain feeling in my stomach, feeling to be a bit thirsty...

What is this "I" that is watching and all the rest. Can wachting and hearing and thinking... happen without a separate "I" doing any of them? Are you watching or is there watching happening?
Really investigate this as you go about your day. Whatever you're doing or wherever you are, whatever is happening; is there a "you" doing any of it.

There is a sense/thought/feeling - I do not know how to call it

Ok let's explore this down a bit

When I say There is no you, no self. It doesn't exist and it never has. The character Peter is a figment of imagination

Describe what happens in details.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter,

ooops! I accidentally posted my answer before I had time to finish and edit it. Please ignore it for now :)

Silvia

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Ok so here is my finished answer! Ignore the one I sent before. This one should make more sense.

Good morning Peter,

yes, there is a thirst for the truth even if it doesn't fit my expectations.

That's excellent. So let's continue!

right now I am watching this writing & reading, listening sounds from outside, having a certain feeling in my stomach, feeling to be a bit thirsty...

What is this "I" that is watching and all the rest. Can watching and hearing and thinking... happen without a separate "I" doing any of them? Are you watching or is there watching happening?
Really investigate this as you go about your day. Whatever you're doing or wherever you are, whatever is happening; is there a "you" doing any of it.

There is a sense/thought/feeling - I do not know how to call it

Ok let's break this down a bit

When you read There is no you, no I, no self. It doesn't exist and it never has. The character Peter is a figment of imagination

Describe the sense of "you" that comes up. Is it located anywhere in the body? What does it feel like?

Watch for the thoughts that arise. Are you doing the thoughts? Are you the thoughts?

Do any emotions arise when you read that? Describe them please? Are you doing the emotions? Are you the emotions?


Take some time to explore all this and then write back from your own experience.

Much love
Silvia xx

[PeterCs]

Ciao Silvia,

What is this "I" that is watching and all the rest. Can watching and hearing and thinking... happen without a separate "I" doing any of them? Are you watching or is there watching happening?
Really investigate this as you go about your day. Whatever you're doing or wherever you are, whatever is happening; is there a "you" doing any of it.

It is obvious that watching, hearing, thinking, feelings... are simply happening and they are out of control. How to explain how doing watching? It is impossible. ...but still there is "I" felt. "I" as presence in the body. There is an emotion felt = so it cofirms "I" exist; there is watching experienced = it confirms "I" exist and so on ...even if you call me Peter, Matt, Evita or Biggie... it does not matter.

There is no you, no I, no self. It doesn't exist and it never has. The character Peter is a figment of imagination

Wow! When I read that the feeling of excitement mixed by fear comes up. ...like the feeling before jumping into water from a high place. Excitement, fear, aliveness.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hello Peter,

It's very hot here in London. How is it in your part of the world?

It is obvious that watching, hearing, thinking, feelings... are simply happening and they are out of control.

This is good noticing. And not always all that obvious!

but still there is "I" felt. "I" as presence in the body. There is an emotion felt = so it cofirms "I" exist; there is watching experienced = it confirms "I" exist and so on ...even if you call me Peter, Matt, Evita or Biggie... it does not matter.

Ok, so today I'd like you to examine this I presence in the body.

Where in the body does it manifest?
What does it feel like?
Does this feeling of me-ness ever move to different parts of the body?
Investigate this and then describe it to me fully.

So watching is experienced. Can you find a separate entity experiencing the watching or is there just watching?
What happens when "you" get distracted or do something habitual in an automatic way. Where do "you" go then? Does the body stop breathing or moving? Do the sensations of watching, hearing, sensing.. go away when "you" are not paying attention? Investigate this then write about your experience.

Wow! When I read that the feeling of excitement mixed by fear comes up. ...like the feeling before jumping into water from a high place. Excitement, fear, aliveness.

Yes, I remember feeling like that too!

What happens to the emotions excitement and fear when you drop the labels "excitement" "fear"?

Would you say aliveness is an emotion or is it "something" else?

Sit for a while with your eyes closed and connect with that feeling of aliveness. Is it you? Are you making it happen? or Is it happening to a you that exists separately from the feeling of aliveness? And if so where is this you? Can you find it?


Try to answer all my questions fully even it they seem repetitive. They're there for a reason.
Remember there are no right or wrong answers! just what comes up in your own experience.

Enjoy your Saturday

Much love
Silvia x

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

Here, in Bratislava, it is quite hot too, shiny, good weather. Many people went outside because there are less cars parking on the streets than usual.

Back to your questions. Two-three hours ago I read the transcript of dialog between Elena and Charles. Most of them are same for me. …understanding intellectually of “no me” but still missing the realization; deep reasons why I am looking for “enlightenment”…

I would like to ask: What is real in fact? Everything what is seen, felt, experienced right now even if it is a crazy thought, hallucination? I only want to answer your questions honestly as much as possible.

Where in the body does it ( "I" presence) manifest?
What does it feel like?
Does this feeling of me-ness ever move to different parts of the body?
Investigate this and then describe it to me fully.

After reading the transcript it seems to me that "I presence" I mentioned before is only a mind concept.

So watching is experienced. Can you find a separate entity experiencing the watching or is there just watching?

Not found any entity, but still a sense of "I" is operating.

What happens when "you" get distracted or do something habitual in an automatic way. Where do "you" go then? Does the body stop breathing or moving? Do the sensations of watching, hearing, sensing.. go away when "you" are not paying attention? Investigate this then write about your experience.

The body does not stop breathing, moving; watching, hearing, sensing… does not go away when I not paying attention. I am 100% sure about that!

What happens to the emotions excitement and fear when you drop the labels "excitement" "fear"?

Would you say aliveness is an emotion or is it "something" else?

It is strange, but I cannot connect to the aliveness. I am only hearing sounds, feeling a small teeth ache in the mouth, feeling of being full in stomach, feeling hot…

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter

I hope you enjoyed your day.

Most of them are same for me. …understanding intellectually of “no me” but still missing the realization; deep reasons why I am looking for “enlightenment”…

Not to worry, that's why we're here. We're looking to experience bit by bit until clarity arises all by itself. And intellectual understanding is no small thing. Very many people struggle to digest the very notion of no-self.

What is real in fact? Everything what is seen, felt, experienced right now even if it is a crazy thought, hallucination? I only want to answer your questions honestly as much as possible.

That's a very good question Peter. What is real; that which cannot be denied. Simple.
Look, right now, in your experience what is it that cannot be argued with or denied?

Where in the body does it ( "I" presence) manifest?
What does it feel like?
Does this feeling of me-ness ever move to different parts of the body?
Investigate this and then describe it to me fully.

Peter, you haven't answered my questions! Please do so.

After reading the transcript it seems to me that "I presence" I mentioned before is only a mind concept.

By I presence I meant the felt sense that there is a me within this body directing, controlling or watching. If it is felt then how can it be a mind concept? I'm not talking about the idea of it, but the feeling in your body that makes you believe that there is a "you" somewhere.

The body does not stop breathing, moving; watching, hearing, sensing… does not go away when I not paying attention. I am 100% sure about that!

What does this tell you about the self?

What about attention? Do you control or direct attention? Explore this then write.

What happens to the emotions excitement and fear when you drop the labels "excitement" "fear"?

[/quote]

Please answer this question too.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Love
Silvia x