Looking for the self

[Iconoclast]

OK, Jon, very good.

You wrote: “I find when I am not in psychological time, the sense of ‘me’ is at its weakest.”

Let's look more closely at this “sense of me.”

When the sense of “me” becomes stronger, is there actually a “me” there that becomes stronger, or is there simply more selfing (thinking of me) taking place?

And when the sense of “me” becomes weaker, what exactly remains? Is there a “me” experiencing the present moment, or are there simply sensations, thoughts, feelings, sounds, and perceptions happening?

Please look directly rather than answering from what you already know. Can you find an experiencer separate from the experience itself?

[starksj]

Hi Necip,

I won’t be able to respond to your questions today because I’ll be busy running errands. I’ll reply tomorrow.

With Love,
Jon

[Iconoclast]

OK, Jon, fine.

[starksj]

When the sense of “me” becomes stronger, is there actually a “me” there that becomes stronger, or is there simply more selfing (thinking of me) taking place?

Well, I cannot find a “me.” “Me” is just an idea or thought, and it appears that this thought of me is a habitual pattern. What seems to get stronger is the identification with the idea of “me,” especially when I am in psychological time, thinking of “me” in relation to some future outcome or past memory. Even then, there is no “me” that can actually be found.

And when the sense of “me” becomes weaker, what exactly remains? Is there a “me” experiencing the present moment, or are there simply sensations, thoughts, feelings, sounds, and perceptions happening?

Since I cannot locate a “me” the sense of me is just a thought. There is no me that is in the present moment, what is present now are sensations, seeing, hearing, touch, smell, thoughts, and feelings.

Please look directly rather than answering from what you already know. Can you find an experiencer separate from the experience itself?

No I can’t find an separate experiencer. There is just this happening.

[Iconoclast]

Hi Jon,

You say that "identification with the idea of me" becomes stronger.

Look directly: can you find anything that is doing the identifying?

Or is ‘identification’ simply another name for thoughts, feelings and sensations arising together and creating a stronger sense of me?

[starksj]

Look directly: can you find anything that is doing the identifying?

Or is ‘identification’ simply another name for thoughts, feelings and sensations arising together and creating a stronger sense of me?

Ah yes, thank you for catching that! When I look, there are only thoughts, feelings, and sensations. I don’t find anyone behind them identifying with anything. There was selfing in my answer!!

[Iconoclast]

Very good, Jon, you got it!

As you SEE, it’s just thoughts, feelings, and sensations,
and nothing else.

No one. There is no one.
Just this.

[Iconoclast]

Now let's investigate the following:

1. Is there anyone looking directly, or is there only the act of looking itself?

2. When it comes to making a decision, can you find a separate 'you' who decides, or do decisions simply happen on their own, just like thoughts and sensations?

[starksj]

Is there anyone looking directly, or is there only the act of looking itself?

I cannot find anyone doing the looking. There is only looking.

When it comes to making a decision, can you find a separate 'you' who decides, or do decisions simply happen on their own, just like thoughts and sensations?

I have been observing “my” activities throughout the day, and I haven’t been able to find anything making decisions. Decisions just happen.

[Iconoclast]

Very good, Jon.

Now look a little more closely at this:

You say, “I cannot find anyone doing the looking” and “I haven’t been able to find anything making decisions.”

Is it simply that a separate looker or decision-maker is difficult to find, or is it becoming clear that there is no such entity there in the first place?

Please look directly rather than reasoning this out. And please look directly at these as well:

1. When an intention arises, is there anyone who creates or owns that intention?

2. When a choice happens, is there anyone who chooses?

3. And after an action has happened, what exactly turns it into “I did that”? Can you find anything there other than a thought claiming ownership of what has already happened?

[starksj]

Hi Necip!

I spent yesterday looking into these questions. I’ll be fairly busy today, but I’d like to continue investigating them as I go about my activities. I’ll get back to you tomorrow.

With Love,
Jon

[Iconoclast]

Sure, Jon.

[starksj]

1. When an intention arises, is there anyone who creates or owns that intention?

After spending the day waiting for intentions to arise, I found that there is no one who creates intentions. Intentions just arise and go away the same way thoughts do. No one owns the intentions, just as no one owns thoughts, even though a thought arises saying, “This is my intention.”

2. When a choice happens, is there anyone who chooses?

Just as with intentions, there is no one making choices. They just happen.

3. And after an action has happened, what exactly turns it into “I did that”? Can you find anything there other than a thought claiming ownership of what has already happened?

When I do something, such as pick up a cup, there is a thought that claims ownership of the action. I cannot find anything creating that thought. It just arises. I cannot find anything beyond the thought itself that makes the action mine.

[Iconoclast]

OK, Jon, good.

Your observations are clear, especially regarding how a thought arises after an action and claims ownership of it.

Let's explore choice a little more closely through direct experience.

During the day, notice a simple situation in which a choice arises, such as deciding what to eat or which of two objects to pick up.

Please describe one specific instance in detail:

1. What happened just before the choice?

2. How did the choice arise? Were there thoughts, feelings, sensations, or impulses involved?

3. Could you find anyone actually making the choice, or did the choice simply happen?

4. Was there a thought afterward claiming, "I chose that"?

Please focus on what you actually observe in direct experience, rather than what you already understand about how choices happen.

[starksj]

Hi Necip,
I’ve been sitting with your questions for the past two days. I’ll be busy this morning so I’ll respond later today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks!