Seeking guidance to look

[Andras92]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self feels like an internally generated projection — consistent across time, solid, mine. But when I actually examine it, I can't find anything there. I understand this conceptually, and I've circled it for years, but I haven't genuinely come into contact with it. That gap is why I'm applying.

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance and support — someone to help me see my blind spots and give me clarity on how to actually approach this, because on my own I keep spinning.

Ultimately I want to reduce my suffering -- the sense of always managing myself, of not being enough.

I suffer, and everything I understand about this pointing suggests it could undo a lot of it at the root. I feel genuinely called to this, but I'm overwhelmed by the sprawl of content out there — YouTube teachers, books, apps.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Direct pointing. Someone asking me to look at immediate experience and report honestly what I find, then redirecting me when I drift into thinking about it instead of looking — which I expect I'll do. Honestly, I don't totally know how this works or what to expect, but I'm open to whatever it might be.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've meditated for about 15 years — jhana-oriented practice, vipassana, embodiment work, various apps and formats along the way. I've found consistency at times but never depth; practice has stayed wide rather than penetrating.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[ashton]

Hi Andras. My name is Ashton and I'll be your guide.
I think we'll have a fun time.
You can call me Ash or Ashton. Whatever works. Lmk what you want me to call you.

Anyways, the way this is going to work is I am going to put things that you say in quotes by copying a sentence or paragraph of yours that strikes me by placing that copied text inside of the quote function up above this textbox. It'll appear as [ quote ] (copied text here) [ /quote ] except there won't be spaces. You'll do the same when answering my questions. Simple enough, right?!

When I ask you these questions, I do not want you to tell me your answer from thought. Never! You can tell me your answer a) as your experience is currently happening and you notice what is currently happening as your experience unfolds or b) via memory.

To clarify, you CAN tell me "Ash, thought is/was coming up and it was saying xyz thing". But that is drastically different than forming your answer FROM thought. See how that example is different? That statement would have been formed through experience being seen directly and/or memory.

What you said here hit me and this will be the first thing we examine:

But when I actually examine it, I can't find anything there.

When you are doing this examining...
Can you see that there is just examining?
Maybe or maybe not accompanied by not seeing whatever it is that you are *trying* to look for?
And maybe or maybe not feelings of feeling bad may arise by not seeing something that you think should be there, but presently isn't there?

Can you see all of those as a chain of events? That there was no control over them? That they all just arose on their own? Without ever asking for your consent or permission to arise?

Did you say "Hey, experience! First have the thought that 'I should examine my experience'! Then after that, start examining it! Then after that, Look *really really hard* for xyz thing! Then after that, have it so it can't actually be noticed because it isn't actually there! Then after that, make it so feeling bad happens! Then after that... then after that... then after that"

Or did all of that just happen on its own without you asking for each and every one of those chain of events to take place?


Look back.
Reflect.
Report your findings.

Ash.

[Andras92]

Hi Ash, I appreciate your help w this and I'm looking forward to this exploration! I go by Andras.

Can you see that there is just examining?

There's a sense by which I feel this, and there's the thought the it still feels orchestrated around a central point of consciousness in my head; that there's a point around which all of experience is arising. And then I turn into the central point, but it feels uncontactable but there.

Can you see all of those as a chain of events? That there was no control over them? That they all just arose on their own? Without ever asking for your consent or permission to arise?

I have the thought that this resonants, in retrospect looking back at the sequence. Though in the moment it felt like I was the agent/doer.

[ashton]

Hi Andras,

Just incase you don't know, you can read my responses and take time to observe and see if what I'm pointing at arises in your experience or similar throughout the day. That and/or reflect back via memory to see if what I'm pointing at can sort of be found.

But when I actually examine it, I can't find anything there.

When you are doing this examining...
Can you see that there is just examining?

There's a sense by which I feel this, and there's the thought that it still feels orchestrated around a central point of consciousness in my head; that there's a point around which all of experience is arising. And then I turn into the central point, but it feels uncontactable but there

Time to unpack. We are going to put everything you say into chains...chains of experience that arose. So let's do that now:

1. Examining occurred in your experience but didn't get seen as 'just examining' (Completely fine!)
2. Accompanied by awareness looking to see if there was 'just examining'
3. Some sort of sense (not sure if physical, emotional, or a thought) occurred that created a sense of at least seeing partially that examining is there. Maybe a little bit of clarity is what arose, but not full clarity? (Completely fine)
4. Probably sensations in and around the head it sounds like
5. Thought arose of "hmm idk it just feels orchestrated though around a central point of consciousness in my head"
6. Focal point/awareness shifted towards central point
7. 'Partial sensations' so to speak (which would still be full sensations) or rather, unclear sensations arose on account of that

Okay.
So something like that roughly happened.
And so it was.
It happened like that.
Nothing is wrong about a single chain of that experience.
That chain happened exactly as it happened!
It was just a chain.

More chains will come.
All with their each different flavor.

Maybe unclarity will arise. Maybe clarity will. Maybe ubcomfortableness will arise. Or love. Or peace. Or hate. Or anger.

Okay.
All chains.

Maybe you'll feel compelled to reply back and say
"But this and this happened"
Or
"Omg my experience is going bad"
Or
"Ashton help me"
Or

Or
Or
Or
Or

Lol. All chains.
Look.
Is there control over any single chain?
At any part of the day?
Over any sensation?

Or does it all just arise?
Even the ones that feel like you are in control.
Can you see that the feeling... the feeling that could be described as having a more personal flavor, a flavor that could be described as being "more you"... even that feeling, just arose on its own?

Look.
Explore.
Look back via memory.
Look at your current experience.

Heck. Maybe you are looking or pondering right now. If so, did it just happen on its own?

What about reading my message?
Just happened on its own right?

What about the shifting of perspective on account of reading that?
Did that too just happen on its own?

Ash.