Wanting to wakeup feels like its what's stopping awakening

[mayafreedom]

Ok I think you're right that some shift(s) have already happened, it may have been something more recent actually just in December.

I just had a session with Christina Guimond (I had booked it before I started the work here on the Gate).

Before I wax poetic can you send me the confirmation questions? And I will be as absolutely honest as I can with them.

[Anastacia42]

Checkpoint Questions



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving

[mayafreedom]

I watched the 2nd video on the 2nd fetter (doubt) and found that to be exactly what I've learned--thinking you can solve the doubt and trying to solve it by thinking doesn't work. Letting it pass and feeling any feeling helps.

Thanks for sending these evaluation questions; I started writing my answers but I'm going to sit on it for a day.

Speaking of sitting, when I look for a boundary between my body and the chair, I cannot find one. I feel only pressure, tingly, openness.

I practiced with looking for the boundary of consciousness while sitting outside. At first it seems like there is one, like the spaciousness has a form, but once looking for the boundary of that form, one cannot be found. I also noticed that as sounds appeared to be further and further in the distance, consciousness immediately appeared to be that big/far out, too.

[Anastacia42]

Good. and good inoticing.

I'll watch for your other replies

Loving

[mayafreedom]

I feel clear about the doubts now. I can separate out the things I'm expecting from awakening which are 4th and 5th fetter, not 1st. (I researched these and see some of the source of my thinking was just anecdotes from others).

But I can also see that I've not had total the total collapse of "me," (subject).

In the December experience there was identification with consciousness ("I'm here watching this show that is not me”). That mat be where I'm at. Lots of seeing what's not me (all the mind made objects and sense impressions) but still feeling me is the presence itself. Like I'm coming from behind the eyes. Occasionally that viewer position has shifted like it's coming from behind and outside the body, seeing the body move and speak of its own accord.

Laying in bed right now there is pressure, pulse, heaviness. Bed meeting body, no boundary can be found.

[Anastacia42]

I've not had total the total collapse of "me," (subject).

What do you expect that to be like? That may be the 8th Fetter, not the first.


Please watch this.

https://youtu.be/trB0Fi6dpg0?si=U7_2cwc47-ryCiIh

Yes. The whole hour & a half.

Loving,

[mayafreedom]

I have fallen asleep watching the Pernille<>Todd interview 2 nights in a row, starting now during daytime!

Butt-chair report: hardness, softness, oscillations/flow, heaviness, bumpiness. No discernable boundary found. Noticed then in looking for one, mind produces pictures (thoughts, not reality).

[Anastacia42]

Good plan.

Good observations

Loving,

[mayafreedom]

OMG I'm absolutely losing it. I've written and deleted about 7 times now.

All I can say right now is I really do not know anything.

[Anastacia42]

Losing it might be a good thing. You must be RELAXED.

From an email from Ilona

Nothing dramatic happened.

There were no fireworks.
No permanent bliss states.
No sudden personality changes.

And yet, something shifted.


Here are a few things people said afterwards:

“I’m not fighting my experience anymore. There’s more space around everything.”

“I expected something big to happen. Instead, life feels simpler and I trust myself more.”

“There’s less urgency. The seeking has softened.”


This is the kind of shift this work supports.

Ilona Cuinate


Loving,

[mayafreedom]

Yeah, I relate to that email from Ilona and also to Pernille and Todd (https://youtu.be/trB0Fi6dpg0?si=U7_2cwc47-ryCiIh) both saying nothing specific happened, it was gradual (paraphrasing). I definitely have had a massive overall shift over the past 7 years...with each retreat, sometimes each meditation, or just going to visit and talk with my teachers...more relaxed, calm, spacious, more trust in the body/intuition...trust in the Buddha, dhamma, even enlightenment (seeing others).

And then I also relate to the self-doubt that Todd was discussing. Not the skeptical doubt so much (faith has come very easily). It used to be "can I awaken in this lifetime" but that got answered, yes. The doubt now is "where am I in this process, how can I be sure?" and "wouldn't I not feel doubt // shame // fear of death...if I was awakened" or "wouldn't I be able to tell someone else that we aren't separate selves with complete certainty."

Yesterday I was in a large group of people and looking at out at all these humans, there's no way any one of them made themself. That doesn't make any sense. We're like ants, or even like sand on the beach. But just somehow...aware of sand-ness? I know these are thoughts, but it was a felt sense of looking at everyone and not seeing separate agents.

I've not had total the total collapse of "me," (subject).

What do you expect that to be like? That may be the 8th Fetter, not the first.

I guess what I'm expecting is certainty from direct-seeing that there isn't a self, not that that's permanent (dropping 8th fetter).

What I know: when I look, I can see thoughts/feelings/sensations, and I am still here, looking, but the sensations/thoughts/feelings come and go. So I cannot be them. That's certain. Those things are not constant, and I don't always know that, I get wrapped in them all the time, like all the attention zooming in and getting lost in it, but then I can zoom back out quite regularly. I'm aware that in-and-out is normal for first awakening, I don't expect taht to be gone. But I doubt that what I'm experiencing is that. Could I just be experiencing some calm/relaxation/spaciousness but it's not actually a backing up from the self-ing process?

I'm ashamed right now at all the thinking and I want to prove to you that I also can relax and just be, A LOT, but that sounds like self-ing, so see, I'm still self-ing!

[mayafreedom]

Doubt comes and goes! I can't be doubt, either!!

Now the boundary exercise is more confusing. I can't be the body, I could cut up the body and (outside of what causes death) I would still be sensing. But senses come and go.

Senses come and go. Doubting comes and goes. Fear comes and goes. Shame comes and goes.

All that seems to be still here is the perceiving itself. Even the thought that just came in "that sounds conceited" came and went.

Is that all we're talking about here???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Anastacia42]

You are doing fine.

Are you answering the questions I sent you on Saturday? RELAX


There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi


Loving

[mayafreedom]

I wrote up this reply on Saturday, have re-read it and it all holds, have only added a little here and there:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

I can't find one anywhere and any sense of it that seems to transiently be is clearly a construction of thought followed by pleasant/unpleasant feelings that simply all pass. It doesn't last. It comes and goes but is not continuous. It's not separate because I am perceiving it.

It seems it gets a stronger pull if it's more detailed or more emotional and it attention gets stuck or sucked in there.

I don't know if it existed in the past because the past is not happening, but from this vantage point right now, it never existed except as a collection of thoughts/ideas...like a pattern of memories or a neural network.

I do have the sense that I am here though that seems entirely different from the idea of being me, it's just direct presence or observation, not "a person," but it does seem to often come from these eyes or ears. Sometimes it moves above or behind the head.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is the idea or concept that there is a lasting/permanent "me" who is making things, deciding things, and "is" the body, thoughts, feelings, perceptions, and consciousness. This idea seems to be attained somewhere/time in life but I don't remember when it came about so I can't say for sure.

How I see it now is that from the position of silence and just observing sensations, verbal thoughts appear out of seemingly nowhere and say things about what, who, and how this being is or should be (judgments). My experience is simply letting these pass they go away, and aren't lasting. It's like a transient sense of what I am comes in with the thought and then goes out with it. Sometimes that process clings longer if attention stays with thoughts longer, and feelings seem to follow (liking/disliking) but these just pass too. It all just passes.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels the same right now as before the dialogue started except that I'm somehow not doubting what I'm actually seeing in the same way. It seems really simple and obvious? I almost feel annoyed at how over complicated the mind has been making it but mostly this just feels relieving that maybe/possibly (I'm still really open to it not being true) I do know that peace and stillness of just being/witnessing and that I can just keep the habit of the attention moving there and it really is that simple and beautiful. There is the direct seeing and there are doubt thoughts, but they come and go. I can see that now.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I was in a session with Christian G and she had me do the same boundary exercise as butt-chair, but with conscious awareness itself. I didn't see infinite perception but I also could not truly find a boundary to it except generated in thought, same as butt-chair. I could see that everything arises within that consciousness, including this body itself. I could remember immediately many times I've felt that sense of "me" as the watcher, observing Maya speak, move,.etc, that I am not her, I'm bigger and beyond her. And I could feel it right then. I can feel it right now. <<---(when I wrote this on Saturday.)

I can also see right now the doubt thoughts "you aren't actually awakened because..." But it's clear I cannot be those thoughts because *they* come and go, and *I* (whatever that is, just this presence) don't come and go, I can only be here. It's like everything else is passing through right here. Actually that's not quite right because it can't really pass, it just presents here.

One of the things that immediately came up was an experience this winter in meditation when I was experiencing visions and I had the very clear and distinct realization that I was not the visions, that I would infact have no idea how to make a vision, and that I was watching the vision, the vision was just happening. That same experience is true of the body, intelligence, thoughts, etc. I have no f*ing clue how any of that works how to make it happen, how words can even come out right now is absolutely insane.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

I don't know how decision works, it seems absolutely crazy. There is a separation between thoughts arising that say they have decided something, the feeling of decision (that must just be a thought) and actions, and I can't figure out where they actually come from.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

I don't get intention...I don't know where it comes from, it doesn't make sense. There is the experience of intending but why? Is that just conditioned? I don't directly know. It is baffling to me that I somehow have the intention to awaken and use that to shape how I spend my time and energy.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

I can't see how will can be "free." I can only see all the things happening and only assume all the things that came before conditioned this thing into a direction. I can't see an independent controller of things.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Same as above...I may be missing something

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Same

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things seem to happen of their own accord. Like wind blowing and cells dividing and hands flipping... it's pretty mind blowing. Nothing makes anything anything as far as I know. Like I can't make my hand flip or make muscles grow or make cars drive. A thought says I feel dumb right now. But I'm just being honest.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I feel responsible for my actions but don't see how that can be. It feels important to be kind to other beings, not do harm, etc, but am I truly responsible? I really don't know how that would be possible.

6) Anything to add?

I really worry that I'm just saying things intellectually. I would like more "tests" of my direct seeing to know for sure.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

really worry that I'm just saying things intellectually

Yes, sorry to say that all sounds like thinking.

Slow dawn. Relax. Don't be so hard on yourself.

When we answer from SEEING, there's not a lot to say.

Keep LOOKING.

Loving