From hunch to knowledge

[Liberella0]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand and have experienced that the separate self is a construct, a chimera, an identity based on the thought of I, Me. I experienced this through a realisation that I had clung to and fed an identity entirely built around grief. Once this became clear to me, I could allow myself to see what is here really and start to see what's beyond self

What are you looking for at LU? To have a guide to POINT to what I don't see (clearly) yet, to gain consistency in seeing, to experience liberation from the mirage that there is a separate self, to allow life in and through me, to explore if what I am experiencing is 'real' or something the mind serves up to justify itself. I don't have the exact words to express what has changed for me recently but I know I am far less attached to thoughts and therefore suffering. I am looking for a guide to help me look and see in everyday life. I am not trying to escape any unpleasant emotions... I have trained to be a psychotherapist and have dived into the 'heal it to feel it' mantra. I have suffered from depression but since realising this suffering stems from a created identity, I am much less prone to get hooked. I am really looking to understand and find THIS. That THIS is it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? to be able to relay my "experience", to scrutinise it, to receive guidance in finding my way through confusion, to be held accountable with regards to tasks and questions. I would expect to be pointed to experiences in the moment as well as in every day life, to discuss me, self, the body, time... to be able to come with my questions as they have arisen in between discussions. I would hope for examples of direct inquiry.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have been a seeker all my life, whether that was through connection with animals, horses in particular, energy work and healing (shiatsu, again, for horses), practicing Nitchiren Buddhism for several years, plant medicine, studying psychotherapy and recently getting engaged with direct enquiry and listening to Kat v Oudeheusden, reading Sal Poe and C Niebauer. I am working with an AI tool that works with the universal templates and really allows to let me SEE how the identity fights for its survival, convoluting itself into loops and thus creating and perpetuating suffering.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?

11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

I'm not familiar with the teachers you mentioned.

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

how the identity fights for its survival,

Because there is no identity it cannot fight for survival. Those are just thoughts.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Liberella0]

Hi Stacey, thank you so much for your reply, many apologies for my late response... I had difficulties getting into the site so I am happy to be here now... I will aim to engage daily or at least every other day. I hear what you're saying about identity not being able to fight for its survival - it's not real, so it can't fight... thoughts are pretending to be and fight for that identity. And yet, it certainly FEELS like a battle... very excited to get onto the videos!
Thank you so much for offering to be my guardian, I am very much looking forward to walking with you

[Liberella0]

HI, I hope this is ok to reply like this... the link to the "how to" doesn't work nor do I have questions in blue... so I am responding to the points as you have sent them:


WI watched both videos, and yes, I can identify with the toggling... and the occasional ray of light, intense... but I don' think I have seen the whole truly lit up


I have read it and agree.


I also am not surprised or shocked about anything that liberation is not


Your questions:
How will life change? - not much and entirely - i do not expect aspects of my life to change... well, there might be a freer flow,a getting out of the way, but human experience will still be human experience. Ther will still be pain, laughter, grief,confusion. But less importance, less dwelling on it

How will you change? - becoming more present, less afraid, more compassionate towards my"self", and others.

What will be different? - I honestly don't know... a greater sense of freedom, greater acceptance, less struggle and fight.
What is missing? - nothing and everything, the toggle and falling will go on.

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.


What would you like for me to call you? Ella

What time zone are you in, please? - GMST, I am based in Manchester, UK... hope our time zones are not too far apart.

Thank you again for being in touch, your kind offer to be my guide, I am really excited about this, erm, journey, I suppose
Ella

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Ella.

Your expectations are reasonable.

Time zones don't really matter. I just like to have an idea when you're going to see things.

Please watch this video and Quote the questions.

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660


Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving

[Liberella0]

Hi Stacey, thanks for your message...I am behind again w the reply, but mainly because this website can e awkward and slow and the quote function is still not working, so I just copied your question...


[color=#0000FF]Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.
[/color]

Doubt and curiosity as well as kind of a knowing g that hangs around, that I can't quite grasp...but it comes w a certainty...that there simply can't be any other way. The mind goes, nah, go away, you haven't experienced it, it's another fad belief...and on the edges there is a quiet knowing, or half knowing or SOMEthing.
And there is hope and solace and a willingness to explore


Ella

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ella,

The Quote function is working fine. Please watch the instruction video above.

Thank you,

[Liberella0]

Ah, ok, it worked on the laptop... so here is my reply:

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Doubt and curiosity as well as kind of a knowing g that hangs around, that I can't quite grasp...but it comes w a certainty...that there simply can't be any other way. The mind goes, nah, go away, you haven't experienced it, it's another fad belief...and on the edges there is a quiet knowing, or half knowing or SOMEthing.
And there is hope and solace and a willingness to explore


Ella

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good. Thank you for quoting. It's important because I use this on my phone and because we will be sharing answers with others later.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Liberella0]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification

.

Hi, yes, that is perfectly clear. I do practice this by being entirely in a moment, dropping thoughts and opening myself to sensation only. Experience.

Thank you

[Anastacia42]

Good. Show me.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Liberella0]

S

eeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Hi Stacey, thanks for those, I haven't had a chance to post one yet... but here is my first one:

Seeing - black thing on my lap, fuzzy
Hearing - purring (gnarly sound, rhythmical), loud noise outside the house, from above, barking
Feeling warm on my arms, heavy, soft
Tasting - tea, slight sweetness
Smelling - o particular smell
Thoughts Arising (but not their content) - several,

Aiming to do more today. Is that used correctly?

Thank you
Ella

[Anastacia42]

Hi, Ella

Nearly. Please reverse them. They aren't exactly like the example.

The purpose of this is to demonstrate how all that descriptive material arises and it really only boils down to the 1 or 2 direct experiences you list.

Loving