Seeking Liberation

[EmmaDaley]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that the 'self' is a concept or thought structure that is created by the human brain. It results in separation from experience as a coping mechanism. The 'self' that the brain makes up can be very complex (well developed ego) or it can be very simple (in the pure "I am" sense).

What are you looking for at LU?
I am seeking to experience what is beyond the 'self' that my brain is making up. I feel that sense of 'self' in every experience that I have and it feels like the walls of a cage. I don't experience looking at clouds, I experience the 'self' looking at clouds. I don't experience hearing a bird, I experience the 'self' hearing a bird. Every experience I have is filtered through the 'self' having that experience. In my experience, 'self' is all that there is and it is everywhere that I look. I want to know what is beyond the 'self'. What is it like to not have this filter over every experience? I want to know the truth because what I am currently experiencing feels distorted.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect the guide to lead me to consider things I have never considered before. Or explore parts of myself that I have never explored before. I do not expect it to be easy. In fact, I expect it to be quite difficult and uncomfortable. I understand that it may or may not lead to liberation, and that's okay.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I first learnt how to meditate about three years ago. During that time I found the work of Angelo DiLullo and read his book Awake. Since then I have had a daily meditation practice on and off; I have read many books around spirituality and waking up; and I have attended three of Angelo's online meditation retreats. In the past eighteen months I have had a lot of shadow material surface and I have been moving through that with various facilitators.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[ashton]

Hi Emma. My name is Ashton and I'll be your guide.
I think we'll have a great time.
You can call me Ash or Ashton. Whatever works. Lmk what you want me to call you.

Anyways, the way this is going to work is I am going to put things that you say in quotes by copying a sentence or paragraph of yours that strikes me by placing that copied text inside of the quote function up above this textbox. It'll appear as [ quote ] (copied text here) [ /quote ] except there won't be spaces. You'll do the same when answering my questions. Simple enough, right?!

When I ask you these questions, I do not want you to tell me your answer from thought. Never! You can tell me your answer a) as your experience is currently happening and you notice what is currently happening as your experience unfolds or b) via memory.

To clarify, you CAN tell me "Ash, thought is/was coming up and it was saying xyz thing". But that is drastically different than forming your answer FROM thought. See how that example is different? That statement would have been formed through experience being seen directly and/or memory.

What you said here hit me and this will be the first thing we examine:

I feel that sense of 'self' in every experience that I have and it feels like the walls of a cage.

Wrong.

Here was your chain of experience more accurately:
1. A thought arose containing the notion that the sense of 'self' is present in each and every experience.
2. Buying into that thought occurred
....
"3". Some sort of active looking occurred on its own to try and find sense of self in every fragment of experience
4. Feelings of walls of a cage arose

That's all that happened! (Roughly speaking!)

So what?
So what thought arose containing the notion that sense of self is in every fragment of experience?
Don't answer either of those. It's rhetorical.
It arose.

So what buying into that thought occurred? Also rhetorical
It arose. Buying into that thought arose. That was your present experience in the 2nd chain.

And then the active looking occurred to make it fit into that box to prove that thought correct.
Okay.
That's what occurred.

Then feeling like walls in a cage happened.
And so it happened.

Did you say before it all happened: "Hey, experience! Have this thought that sense of self is everywhere! Then after that, buy into it! Then after that, start looking at reality through that lens! Then after that, have feelings of feeling stuck in walls of a cage!"
Or did all of that just happen on its own?

Reflect back.
Use memory.
Tell me if that happened. I don't think you told experience to happen that way.
I think it just happened that way.

But don't tell me that to tell me that.
Honestly look back.
Reflect.
It just happened, didn't it?
There was no predicting all 4 of those chains would happen, was there?
Those 4 chains just happened as they did, yeah?
On their own, yeah?

Huh. Wild.

Ash.

[EmmaDaley]

Hi Ash,

Thank you for your response. I no longer need your guidance. I have walked through the gate. There is no longer a 'Self', only this.

Thanks again,
Emma

[ashton]

Okay, congrats and cheers!
Lmk if anything difficult comes up if you need/wish.

Ash.

[ashton]

Hi Emma,

Since I hadn't thought of this:

There are resources with these amazing people from LU and elsewhere that are there after awakening has taken place. For if you want to chat with people that have crossed the same gate. Talk about anything, really. Just gripe on problems, share amazing stories, talk about what's next (the fetters) if you want.

I guess if you'd like, I could ask you some questions to make sure it has indeed happened; this way a mod here can pm you with said resources. It's really neat. There's a community behind all of this that some people love and appreciate.

Anyways,

Ashton.

Have a happy journey no matter which way you life ends up leading you, Emma.

Ash.

[EmmaDaley]

Yes, that would be amazing.

Thank you Ashton

[ashton]

Hi Emma,

Let’s run through these questions and see if there’s anywhere that needs further investigation.
Be relaxed. Don't answer from thought. Describe experience..

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry (or maybe looking for your case) that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Ash

[EmmaDaley]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

Nope.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

The illusion arises when my attention goes to thought. And then my attention might get stuck there. The thought thinks the thought is true, which creates the illusion. The illusion is required to create language to communicate experience to another. So I experience the thought of "I" arise, which allows me to communicate "my" experience with another, and then the thought disappears and there is no "I" here at all, only experience.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

It feels incredibly freeing. Life flows much more easily. There is still devastation, sadness, happiness, and joy (and all the other emotions). But experiencing all those things is just so much easier.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry (or maybe looking for your case) that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

Yes. It was a specific moment on the 10th July 2026. It was like my attention zeroed in on a very, very specific point, and then suddenly I was on the other side so to speak.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

There is none. How can "I" make decisions, have intention, free will, choice, and control when "I" do not exist. Decisions, intention, free will, choice, and control are also illusions. Things just happen and "I" has nothing to do with it.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

"I" am not responsible for anything because "I" do not exist. Things just happen.

6) Anything to add?

I thought walking through the gateless gate was the 9th fetter XD Are you saying I'm just getting started?! Wow.

[EmmaDaley]

Oops, sorry. Walking through the gateless gate is the 8th fetter, and now there will be the 9th and 10th fetters. Cool!

[ashton]

Hi Emma, one guide would just like a little bit more explanation regarding one question/answer:

"Can you remember any specific inquiry (or maybe looking for your case) that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

Yes. It was a specific moment on the 10th July 2026. It was like my attention zeroed in on a very, very specific point, and then suddenly I was on the other side so to speak."

Can you describe this moment more closely? What was zeroed in on? What changed in experience? How did it feel? With as much detail and precision as is possible - thanks!

Also we would like to make known, seeing through the sense of self makes for the dropping of the first three fetters. So there will still be 4-10 to see through after this.

Ash.

Ps: everything and anything desire and aversion are fun ones. It's quite cool how far it can be taken.

[EmmaDaley]

Can you describe this moment more closely? What was zeroed in on? What changed in experience? How did it feel? With as much detail and precision as is possible - thanks!

Certainly. It was the 'self' looking for the 'self' in reality (I was following along with the Gateless Gatecrashers). So the self zeroing in on the self?? I remember my attention getting extremely narrow, on a fixed point. It went allllll the way down, if that makes any sense. Then it kinda felt like a "pop" or a sudden revealing. Suddenly I couldn't see the self any longer. All there was was sensation. No "I" could be found anywhere. Just sensations. Everything was very vivid and real and intimate and close.

Also we would like to make known, seeing through the sense of self makes for the dropping of the first three fetters. So there will still be 4-10 to see through after this.

Okay.