Jen seeking guidance

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Mon Jun 08, 2026 11:56 am

Yes exactly. Problem solving is ALWAYS another loop.

What is wrong in this immediate experience?

Because I notice that every time you look closely, the answer tends to come back as ‘Nothing.’

Then a few seconds later another thought appears, the “Yes, but…”

…And a new story begins.

The body still prefers food to starvation.
The body still prefers shelter to exposure, still applies for jobs, learns skills, talks to people and on and on…

None of that requires a separate self to exist!


What if stabilization is already happening the same way all the other changes happened? Without a manager, just life unfolding.

The sadness that was propping up the idea that my life was uniquely special in some way and needed to go well. Sadness seems to be an energy that starts from around the chest and moves downwards through the torso.
Rather than taking the nihilistic path, what happens if the thought/belief is that everything is uniquely special? As in, what makes ‘you’ NOT whole and complete that is not a thought?

Would the sadness, this sensation, be suffering without the thought that it should be different?

Big love,
Becca
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle

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Jenness
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby Jenness » Sat Jun 13, 2026 10:02 pm

Yes exactly. Problem solving is ALWAYS another loop.

What is wrong in this immediate experience?

Because I notice that every time you look closely, the answer tends to come back as ‘Nothing.’
Have been looking at this the past few days and I think it’s finally sinking in more. “Difficult” sensations seem to be able to arise as pleasant or connection? If I’m not labeling something as wrong with it, and guarding against it/pushing it away. Open to it instead. So then nothing seems wrong no matter what the sensation is. Wanting to open to it so it doesn’t feel bad seems another resistance. Leave the resistance also seems like another layer..there does seem to be a it just is what it is right now, always, kind of perspective. But i need to do a reminder of moment is just the moment, so that requires a doing. It just is what it is, leads to anxiety. Sense of no control. No way to get out.and sadness. And if look again, it’s still just what it is. What’s wrong with the experience is the thought that something is wrong with it.
The body still prefers food to starvation.
The body still prefers shelter to exposure, still applies for jobs, learns skills, talks to people and on and on…

None of that requires a separate self to exist!
Also starting to understand this. Everything can stay the same, except the thought that there’s an owner of experiences here isn’t true, even if that thought keeps appearing. There’s the “this is a problem ” thought, and the “this is owned by a me” thought. Seems the second one can be here without the first, but the first can’t be there without the second?
What if stabilization is already happening the same way all the other changes happened? Without a manager, just life unfolding.
Sad because self and situation self is in not feeling good enough as is, without being able to control changing in order to be good enough. thoughts say can’t understand the point of life if there’s nothing better to try to get to or have. Feels boring? Just this thing, nowhere to go, nothing to get. Doesn’t seem good enough or exciting or fun enough. Have the sense that if gave up hope of things being different, this would be pretty nice to just be in
Rather than taking the nihilistic path, what happens if the thought/belief is that everything is uniquely special? As in, what makes ‘you’ NOT whole and complete that is not a thought?
I love that thought! Everything is awesome as is, kind of feeling. Came with a lot of fear that’s come down a bit in the past few days. Feels like letting go of outcomes in the world because if whole, then nothing I’m trying to prevent or get. But whole feeling may be what I’m looking for anyway, so thought says well let’s just go there directly and not through changing things.
Would the sadness, this sensation, be suffering without the thought that it should be different?
No! I have to do inquiry and stuff to realize this every time, like it needs a bridge right now, so feels like doing something wrong to have to do something. But don’t see another way

Big love back,
Jen

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Sun Jun 14, 2026 11:13 am

There’s the “this is a problem ” thought, and the “this is owned by a me” thought. Seems the second one can be here without the first, but the first can’t be there without the second?
Well, it can be there, and will, there is no one to prevent it, but it makes most every other thought transparent, ridiculous. I say most every other thought because the ones that are not so easily transparent are the ones that come up to be investigated and ultimately resolved beyond the gate.

Doesn’t seem good enough or exciting or fun enough. Have the sense that if gave up hope of things being different, this would be pretty nice to just be in
Continue to look around, taste things, inhale deeply and notice sensations. Is THIS boring?

Feels like letting go of outcomes in the world because if whole, then nothing I’m trying to prevent or get. But whole feeling may be what I’m looking for anyway, so thought says well let’s just go there directly and not through changing things.
Not to burst the bubble but hope is always selfing. :)
And you are already in what is without that thought!

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.


Also here is a chatbot tool to work with beliefs based on Byron Katie’s questions (if you don’t want to use AI her questions and worksheet can be easily found online and in her books). Work with it for a bit for those beliefs that aren’t easily seen through and let me know how it goes!

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-tRFAZymCM-the-work-2-0
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle

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Jenness
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby Jenness » Wed Jun 17, 2026 7:24 pm

Well, it can be there, and will, there is no one to prevent it, but it makes most every other thought transparent, ridiculous. I say most every other thought because the ones that are not so easily transparent are the ones that come up to be investigated and ultimately resolved beyond the gate.
Helpful!
Continue to look around, taste things, inhale deeply and notice sensations. Is THIS boring?
It’s not actually boring! Boring was more covering sad, sadness that i can’t get life to go the way i want and get this “thing” with seeing through self or it “stabilizing” that i thought was going to take away my suffering and make everything okay. The self problem solving mechanism does seem to just keep looking for things to do and they seem to help, like being with the sensations as they increase in intensity etc., so then i get confused like well doing stuff even while believing im doing it doesn’t seem a problem..but i just got tricked i think. It’s only easier because there was the recognition while being with the intensity that it’s not a problem, and that can be done “directly’ in each moment as “a way out” rather than a process. But wait… I’m right back in using seeing through it as a problem to get out..Seems it’ll just keep trying to get out and it’s even kind of on point? Because it seems the self mechanisms maybe do have to learn it’s better for it to just not pretend it’s there, and that seems like a “relative world” shift.
Not to burst the bubble but hope is always selfing. :)
And you are already in what is without that thought!
Right, this is exactly what i was doing above too! I guess, as long as I’m trying to get somewhere by using a thought, it’s not the same as just a recognition it’s all just in this no matter what. I think i’m getting a slight feel of the difference! One is like “oh right! Phew!” One is like wait i want this
Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.
This was really helpful! It’s been pure imagination for every thought that isn’t just describing what happening currently. I’ll keep doing it
Also here is a chatbot tool to work with beliefs based on Byron Katie’s questions (if you don’t want to use AI her questions and worksheet can be easily found online and in her books). Work with it for a bit for those beliefs that aren’t easily seen through and let me know how it goes!

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-tRFAZymCM-the-work-2-0
I liked it! It leads me back to feeling the emotion underneath that’s there for if i accepted that the thing i don’t want to happen and so i put a thought on it “this shouldn’t happen” might just happen. People and situations may just not feel satisfactory on a relative level and bad things i don’t want to happen might just happen. And once I’ve felt thorugh the emotions, then it can just feel like less big a deal if it happens. Seems to also be a roundabout way though, to reify the emotions. And situation and then feel it as if it’s really a thing that can happen, as opposed to feeling emotions while realizing that in reality, on an ultimate level, none of these things are happening. Let emotions be vs let emotions be in awareness that sees it’s empty

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Thu Jun 18, 2026 11:47 am

It’s been pure imagination for every thought that isn’t just describing what happening currently. I’ll keep doing it
This is enormous. Definitely keep doing it.

A thought about tomorrow is appearing now. A thought about rejection is appearing now. and on and on…

The content never arrives.
Only the thought arrives.

And once I’ve felt thorugh the emotions, then it can just feel like less big a deal if it happens.
Maybe. Sometimes that’s exactly what happens.

But be present if the very next thought is about feeling emotions to reduce suffering later. :)
And then feeling becomes yet another control strategy.

When sadness appears…
Must it be felt so that something happens later?
Or can sadness simply be sadness?
And fear simply fear without an agenda?

Let emotions be vs let emotions be in awareness that sees it’s empty
Interesting. Look carefully. Can you actually find two things?
1. an emotion
2. an awareness looking at the emotion
Or is that another conceptual split?

So for now, don’t try to let emotions be in awareness OR outside awareness.
Just look.
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle

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Jenness
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby Jenness » Tue Jun 23, 2026 5:25 am

Hi Becca!
This is enormous. Definitely keep doing it.

A thought about tomorrow is appearing now. A thought about rejection is appearing now. and on and on…

The content never arrives.
Only the thought arrives.
Have been continuing to do this, and it’s feeling more like there’s just always two level, nothing is happening other than there’s some kind of experience but everything appears to still be happening, a person here, a chair there etc. And then even within what appears to be happing, like you pointed at the thoughts about the future can never be true. A thought about what’s happening now, etc. person talking to me is more true, but the biggest difficulty lies in no idea if a person is thinking a negative thought about me and maybe not going to like me. But the two levels converge, like the more the relative world sees that it’s made of just experience and so sensations aren’t inherently suffering, the less it minds whether everyone is going to hate me or whether I’m going to have to suffer from working really difficult jobs if resources become an issue, etc.,

Maybe. Sometimes that’s exactly what happens.

But be present if the very next thought is about feeling emotions to reduce suffering later. :)
And then feeling becomes yet another control strategy.
Have been catching this happening a lot! This is my go to control strategy, it seems
When sadness appears…
Must it be felt so that something happens later?
Or can sadness simply be sadness?
And fear simply fear without an agenda?
I notice even when I’m trying to let it be, i’m kind of holding it in place, so I like the no agenda prompt, let it do what it wants. Sometimes tapping into a curiosity for what it’s going to do in addition to the fear that comes with realizing i don’t know what it’s going to do.
Interesting. Look carefully. Can you actually find two things?
1. an emotion
2. an awareness looking at the emotion
Or is that another conceptual split?

So for now, don’t try to let emotions be in awareness OR outside awareness.
Just look.
I can’t find two things. Then fear comes, and look at the fear, and i also can’t find two things there , fear and awareness. But it pops in and out. Fear seems to catch me the most. And then saw it just catches but it’s not catching a me. Just a fear of nothingness, it seems. How could nothing be okay, the belief is.

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Wed Jun 24, 2026 12:21 pm

You’ve been doing this long enough now that the fear itself is starting to reveal where the remaining assumptions are hiding. That’s why it keeps showing up. It’s not a mistake. It’s showing you exactly where to look.

Lets look at nothing, or nothingness…
What is that label pointing to?

What is “nothingness” here? What is present in sensations?

Fear seems to catch me the most. And then saw it just catches but it’s not catching a me. Just a fear of nothingness, it seems.
Look directly the next time fear appears.
Does fear catch anything? Or does fear simply appear?

Where is the one being threatened, or trapped?

Is the fear of nothingness an illusion? That seeing through the illusion of ‘you’ will mean that everything ceases to exist? Look around, is this the case? Does the world still move without a you in charge, at the center?

Hasn’t it always been this way?
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle

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Jenness
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby Jenness » Mon Jul 06, 2026 7:18 am

Hi Becca,

Been working with this and it keeps progressing, seems like there’s lots of layers of fear.
You’ve been doing this long enough now that the fear itself is starting to reveal where the remaining assumptions are hiding. That’s why it keeps showing up. It’s not a mistake. It’s showing you exactly where to look.
This was helpful! Reframes the fear for me.
Lets look at nothing, or nothingness…
What is that label pointing to?
Initially it was a feeling of self disappearing, and then realized it was also form in the world disappearing , or seemingly because now it’s just experience/seeming sensory input. With a watcher still though.. seeing the watcher means more fear. And then there’s just stuff like it’s nobody’s. Feels lonely and impersonal
What is “nothingness” here? What is present in sensations?
Feels like a hollowed out or spaciousness when it was more about the sense of self, then when also external forms, then it’s like everything is fog , and both come with fear that leads to heart pounding, slight dissociation, head tensing, outwards concentric moving energy that seems to start from the solar plexus and moves outwards.
Look directly the next time fear appears.
Does fear catch anything? Or does fear simply appear?
It simply appears
Where is the one being threatened, or trapped?
Can’t find it, which brings up more fear
Is the fear of nothingness an illusion? That seeing through the illusion of ‘you’ will mean that everything ceases to exist? Look around, is this the case? Does the world still move without a you in charge, at the center?
Can kind of see this more, but the fear still coming up to cover up clarity and then also anger that i can’t change things to make it “better” and grief underneath that
Hasn’t it always been this way?
Seeing this more is what’s led to some of that anger and grief i think. Nothing i can do to avoid what feels like intolerable anguish at not being a good enough person, and then also in a separate vein not even able to be here as the entity and have a life i own. It’s a sense of “give me something!!” And then following that, “let me control it!”

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Mon Jul 06, 2026 11:25 am

Hi Jen,

What knows that another wave of fear appeared?

Don’t answer anything you’ve learned or thought. Just look! Is there actually a watcher there? Someone who is aware?

Or is there simply the appearance of fear, and simultaneously the appearance of knowing it?

See if those are really two.


What are the components of the label ‘anguish’?
What sensations and thoughts arise together ?
You’ve already discovered this with sadness many times. The label and the sensation are not identical. See if that’s also true here.

It’s a sense of “give me something!!” And then following that, “let me control it!”
What exactly is it asking to receive?
A better life? Certainty? Love?

Keep looking… see? Every answer the mind gives is another object.

Can the one asking actually be found?


I have a suspicion that what you’re calling “nothingness” isn’t empty in the sense of lacking something. Perhaps it is empty of self? That would be why it initially feels lonely and impersonal. The old reference point isn’t there…

Don’t rush past the grief or anger. The system needs to adjust to the loss of a strategy it relied on for a very long time. It is like a rebalancing or recalibrating.

And, on a conventional level, it could be supportive to process through some of these feelings (like the persistent belief of not being good enough) with a therapist. This wouldn’t be counter to this work you are doing to get underneath these appearances.
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle

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Jenness
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby Jenness » Thu Jul 09, 2026 1:34 am

What knows that another wave of fear appeared?

Don’t answer anything you’ve learned or thought. Just look! Is there actually a watcher there? Someone who is aware?
No, it’s known as soon as it’s here, and the label of fear goes on top. I see a looker, it looks like the looker comes at the same time that the label comes on and decides what the appearance is from a perspective of someone who sees and knows what it is. The watcher still tags to tension in head. It’s sneaky like can be hard for me to realize it’s there

Or is there simply the appearance of fear, and simultaneously the appearance of knowing it?

See if those are really two.
There isn’t two, which is very confusing , or leads to confusion. Fear but not as much.
What are the components of the label ‘anguish’?
What sensations and thoughts arise together ?
not good enough and someone thinking I’m not good enough are separating out, and it’s really the worry that someone thinks that and would lead to some kind of catastrophic event like being shunned from society , and sensations shift, initially densities moving around my torso with tensions in response to that and also heartrate increasing, then pockets and waves of air like energies shifting out of the body

What exactly is it asking to receive?
A better life? Certainty? Love?
It wants all of those things, and most of all security, certainty that it’ll be safe and that life will go the way it wants. It wants absence of appearances it’s labeled as negative emotions .it believes it shouldn’t have to “suffer”, and it’s still conflating labels of appearances as suffering. Helpful to see it’s right, it doesn’t have to suffer, it’s just misunderstanding what that looks like. Any appearance can be okay as long as its label is seen through.. it’s trying to figure out how to make that happen but it seems it’s just a process and it shifts over time as it sees through it more times
Keep looking… see? Every answer the mind gives is another object.
Easier to see with better life and love, that they’re appearances that are kind of like any other appearance from one perspective. With certainty, it’s both a sensation labeled as safety wanted, and also some idea that what i want will happen, which seems to means.. the appearance arrange in how i want them to. That loosens it up a little. And even before that, things goes how I want them to go just seems like a pipe dream. I don’t have that kind of control over what happens. It doesn’t even appear I have much control over what i do. Or i can see that i don’t when i look but still hazier out by clinging to fear-labeled appearance, resistance to : life will just play out as it does. Want more than that. To have a story that was “mine” and controlled by me. But some acceptance settling in of looks like it’s just not how this life works. It’s trying to hold onto something it gets out of this, like okay it’ll just do whatever it wants, but if i see that and then there’s no resistance then i actually don’t have to suffer. Seems Iike another project. I guess just whatever happens will happen, including resistance and suffering, and there’s no promises of what “I’ll” get from it
Can the one asking actually be found?
No, it’s just an ask, just a question with a feeling
I have a suspicion that what you’re calling “nothingness” isn’t empty in the sense of lacking something. Perhaps it is empty of self? That would be why it initially feels lonely and impersonal. The old reference point isn’t there…
Yes, i think that’s it
Don’t rush past the grief or anger. The system needs to adjust to the loss of a strategy it relied on for a very long time. It is like a rebalancing or recalibrating.

And, on a conventional level, it could be supportive to process through some of these feelings (like the persistent belief of not being good enough) with a therapist. This wouldn’t be counter to this work you are doing to get underneath these appearances.
Great, that makes sense. I’m in therapy, though mostly just using it to feel through feelings

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Thu Jul 09, 2026 12:41 pm

Where is this looker looking from? What is it looking at? Is it a mental image? How is it known in direct experience?

Is the looker different from the watcher? Do they tag to different tensions.

Here’s a quick exercise.

Many experience the ‘me’ as being centred in the head.
What I would like you to do is imagine a small apple centred in the head.
Before the apple disappears….
…imagine a canary centred in the head, tweeting away.
Before, the canary flies off (weird huh?)….
…imagine a 'me' centred in the head.
Stay with it…
…imagine it is completely transparent. See straight through it…
…imagine there not seeming to be a 'me' in the head anymore.
Give it a go, see what happens.

then pockets and waves of air like energies shifting out of the body
Curious if this flow feels experientially positive or negative or neutral..

Any appearance can be okay as long as its label is seen through.. it’s trying to figure out how to make that happen
Nope. Any appearance is always ok. It is looking at the resistance that arises and seeing where the underlying belief and sensations lie. And seeing through the ownership.

And yes:
like okay it’ll just do whatever it wants, but if i see that and then there’s no resistance then i actually don’t have to suffer. Seems Iike another project. I guess just whatever happens will happen, including resistance and suffering, and there’s no promises of what “I’ll” get from it
Yes to this except there is no I swirling around who the happenings are about. Back to the top of this post to investigate… where is ‘I’?
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle

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Jenness
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby Jenness » Sun Jul 12, 2026 10:58 pm

Hi Becca,

Done the exercise a few times and it’s helping loosen and release fear out, but wanted to keep doing it until it sinks in. Off on retreat for about a week , will check back after !

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graceabounds
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Re: Jen seeking guidance

Postby graceabounds » Mon Jul 13, 2026 11:58 am

❤️
“Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”

- Eckhart Tolle


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