Jen seeking guidance

[graceabounds]

Yes exactly. Problem solving is ALWAYS another loop.

What is wrong in this immediate experience?

Because I notice that every time you look closely, the answer tends to come back as ‘Nothing.’

Then a few seconds later another thought appears, the “Yes, but…”

…And a new story begins.

The body still prefers food to starvation.
The body still prefers shelter to exposure, still applies for jobs, learns skills, talks to people and on and on…

None of that requires a separate self to exist!


What if stabilization is already happening the same way all the other changes happened? Without a manager, just life unfolding.

The sadness that was propping up the idea that my life was uniquely special in some way and needed to go well. Sadness seems to be an energy that starts from around the chest and moves downwards through the torso.

Rather than taking the nihilistic path, what happens if the thought/belief is that everything is uniquely special? As in, what makes ‘you’ NOT whole and complete that is not a thought?

Would the sadness, this sensation, be suffering without the thought that it should be different?

Big love,
Becca

[Jenness]

Yes exactly. Problem solving is ALWAYS another loop.

What is wrong in this immediate experience?

Because I notice that every time you look closely, the answer tends to come back as ‘Nothing.’

Have been looking at this the past few days and I think it’s finally sinking in more. “Difficult” sensations seem to be able to arise as pleasant or connection? If I’m not labeling something as wrong with it, and guarding against it/pushing it away. Open to it instead. So then nothing seems wrong no matter what the sensation is. Wanting to open to it so it doesn’t feel bad seems another resistance. Leave the resistance also seems like another layer..there does seem to be a it just is what it is right now, always, kind of perspective. But i need to do a reminder of moment is just the moment, so that requires a doing. It just is what it is, leads to anxiety. Sense of no control. No way to get out.and sadness. And if look again, it’s still just what it is. What’s wrong with the experience is the thought that something is wrong with it.

The body still prefers food to starvation.
The body still prefers shelter to exposure, still applies for jobs, learns skills, talks to people and on and on…

None of that requires a separate self to exist!

Also starting to understand this. Everything can stay the same, except the thought that there’s an owner of experiences here isn’t true, even if that thought keeps appearing. There’s the “this is a problem ” thought, and the “this is owned by a me” thought. Seems the second one can be here without the first, but the first can’t be there without the second?

What if stabilization is already happening the same way all the other changes happened? Without a manager, just life unfolding.

Sad because self and situation self is in not feeling good enough as is, without being able to control changing in order to be good enough. thoughts say can’t understand the point of life if there’s nothing better to try to get to or have. Feels boring? Just this thing, nowhere to go, nothing to get. Doesn’t seem good enough or exciting or fun enough. Have the sense that if gave up hope of things being different, this would be pretty nice to just be in

Rather than taking the nihilistic path, what happens if the thought/belief is that everything is uniquely special? As in, what makes ‘you’ NOT whole and complete that is not a thought?

I love that thought! Everything is awesome as is, kind of feeling. Came with a lot of fear that’s come down a bit in the past few days. Feels like letting go of outcomes in the world because if whole, then nothing I’m trying to prevent or get. But whole feeling may be what I’m looking for anyway, so thought says well let’s just go there directly and not through changing things.

Would the sadness, this sensation, be suffering without the thought that it should be different?

No! I have to do inquiry and stuff to realize this every time, like it needs a bridge right now, so feels like doing something wrong to have to do something. But don’t see another way

Big love back,
Jen

[graceabounds]

There’s the “this is a problem ” thought, and the “this is owned by a me” thought. Seems the second one can be here without the first, but the first can’t be there without the second?

Well, it can be there, and will, there is no one to prevent it, but it makes most every other thought transparent, ridiculous. I say most every other thought because the ones that are not so easily transparent are the ones that come up to be investigated and ultimately resolved beyond the gate.

Doesn’t seem good enough or exciting or fun enough. Have the sense that if gave up hope of things being different, this would be pretty nice to just be in

Continue to look around, taste things, inhale deeply and notice sensations. Is THIS boring?

Feels like letting go of outcomes in the world because if whole, then nothing I’m trying to prevent or get. But whole feeling may be what I’m looking for anyway, so thought says well let’s just go there directly and not through changing things.

Not to burst the bubble but hope is always selfing. :)
And you are already in what is without that thought!

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.


Also here is a chatbot tool to work with beliefs based on Byron Katie’s questions (if you don’t want to use AI her questions and worksheet can be easily found online and in her books). Work with it for a bit for those beliefs that aren’t easily seen through and let me know how it goes!

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-tRFAZymCM-the-work-2-0

[Jenness]

Well, it can be there, and will, there is no one to prevent it, but it makes most every other thought transparent, ridiculous. I say most every other thought because the ones that are not so easily transparent are the ones that come up to be investigated and ultimately resolved beyond the gate.

Helpful!

Continue to look around, taste things, inhale deeply and notice sensations. Is THIS boring?

It’s not actually boring! Boring was more covering sad, sadness that i can’t get life to go the way i want and get this “thing” with seeing through self or it “stabilizing” that i thought was going to take away my suffering and make everything okay. The self problem solving mechanism does seem to just keep looking for things to do and they seem to help, like being with the sensations as they increase in intensity etc., so then i get confused like well doing stuff even while believing im doing it doesn’t seem a problem..but i just got tricked i think. It’s only easier because there was the recognition while being with the intensity that it’s not a problem, and that can be done “directly’ in each moment as “a way out” rather than a process. But wait… I’m right back in using seeing through it as a problem to get out..Seems it’ll just keep trying to get out and it’s even kind of on point? Because it seems the self mechanisms maybe do have to learn it’s better for it to just not pretend it’s there, and that seems like a “relative world” shift.

Not to burst the bubble but hope is always selfing. :)
And you are already in what is without that thought!

Right, this is exactly what i was doing above too! I guess, as long as I’m trying to get somewhere by using a thought, it’s not the same as just a recognition it’s all just in this no matter what. I think i’m getting a slight feel of the difference! One is like “oh right! Phew!” One is like wait i want this

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

This was really helpful! It’s been pure imagination for every thought that isn’t just describing what happening currently. I’ll keep doing it

Also here is a chatbot tool to work with beliefs based on Byron Katie’s questions (if you don’t want to use AI her questions and worksheet can be easily found online and in her books). Work with it for a bit for those beliefs that aren’t easily seen through and let me know how it goes!

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-tRFAZymCM-the-work-2-0

I liked it! It leads me back to feeling the emotion underneath that’s there for if i accepted that the thing i don’t want to happen and so i put a thought on it “this shouldn’t happen” might just happen. People and situations may just not feel satisfactory on a relative level and bad things i don’t want to happen might just happen. And once I’ve felt thorugh the emotions, then it can just feel like less big a deal if it happens. Seems to also be a roundabout way though, to reify the emotions. And situation and then feel it as if it’s really a thing that can happen, as opposed to feeling emotions while realizing that in reality, on an ultimate level, none of these things are happening. Let emotions be vs let emotions be in awareness that sees it’s empty

[graceabounds]

It’s been pure imagination for every thought that isn’t just describing what happening currently. I’ll keep doing it

This is enormous. Definitely keep doing it.

A thought about tomorrow is appearing now. A thought about rejection is appearing now. and on and on…

The content never arrives.
Only the thought arrives.

And once I’ve felt thorugh the emotions, then it can just feel like less big a deal if it happens.

Maybe. Sometimes that’s exactly what happens.

But be present if the very next thought is about feeling emotions to reduce suffering later. :)
And then feeling becomes yet another control strategy.

When sadness appears…
Must it be felt so that something happens later?
Or can sadness simply be sadness?
And fear simply fear without an agenda?

Let emotions be vs let emotions be in awareness that sees it’s empty

Interesting. Look carefully. Can you actually find two things?
1. an emotion
2. an awareness looking at the emotion
Or is that another conceptual split?

So for now, don’t try to let emotions be in awareness OR outside awareness.
Just look.

[Jenness]

Hi Becca!

This is enormous. Definitely keep doing it.

A thought about tomorrow is appearing now. A thought about rejection is appearing now. and on and on…

The content never arrives.
Only the thought arrives.

Have been continuing to do this, and it’s feeling more like there’s just always two level, nothing is happening other than there’s some kind of experience but everything appears to still be happening, a person here, a chair there etc. And then even within what appears to be happing, like you pointed at the thoughts about the future can never be true. A thought about what’s happening now, etc. person talking to me is more true, but the biggest difficulty lies in no idea if a person is thinking a negative thought about me and maybe not going to like me. But the two levels converge, like the more the relative world sees that it’s made of just experience and so sensations aren’t inherently suffering, the less it minds whether everyone is going to hate me or whether I’m going to have to suffer from working really difficult jobs if resources become an issue, etc.,

Maybe. Sometimes that’s exactly what happens.

But be present if the very next thought is about feeling emotions to reduce suffering later. :)
And then feeling becomes yet another control strategy.

Have been catching this happening a lot! This is my go to control strategy, it seems

When sadness appears…
Must it be felt so that something happens later?
Or can sadness simply be sadness?
And fear simply fear without an agenda?

I notice even when I’m trying to let it be, i’m kind of holding it in place, so I like the no agenda prompt, let it do what it wants. Sometimes tapping into a curiosity for what it’s going to do in addition to the fear that comes with realizing i don’t know what it’s going to do.

Interesting. Look carefully. Can you actually find two things?
1. an emotion
2. an awareness looking at the emotion
Or is that another conceptual split?

So for now, don’t try to let emotions be in awareness OR outside awareness.
Just look.

I can’t find two things. Then fear comes, and look at the fear, and i also can’t find two things there , fear and awareness. But it pops in and out. Fear seems to catch me the most. And then saw it just catches but it’s not catching a me. Just a fear of nothingness, it seems. How could nothing be okay, the belief is.

[graceabounds]

You’ve been doing this long enough now that the fear itself is starting to reveal where the remaining assumptions are hiding. That’s why it keeps showing up. It’s not a mistake. It’s showing you exactly where to look.

Lets look at nothing, or nothingness…
What is that label pointing to?

What is “nothingness” here? What is present in sensations?

Fear seems to catch me the most. And then saw it just catches but it’s not catching a me. Just a fear of nothingness, it seems.

Look directly the next time fear appears.
Does fear catch anything? Or does fear simply appear?

Where is the one being threatened, or trapped?

Is the fear of nothingness an illusion? That seeing through the illusion of ‘you’ will mean that everything ceases to exist? Look around, is this the case? Does the world still move without a you in charge, at the center?

Hasn’t it always been this way?