realizing selflessness

[Anastacia42]

Have I suggested groups?

There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters;:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):

📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)
🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.
🔗 CLICK HERE TO JOIN free meetings:
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Click here for the YouTube Channel


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.

We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:
unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

Ilona Cuinate

admin@ilonaciunaite.com
To sign up for notices.

It might help to talk to other people who have seen and who are searching.

Loving,

[whoknows]

Have I suggested groups?

Yep. But last time, you didn't include info on the fetters or Christiane Michelberger, so thanks for that additional info.

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

This page says, regarding her small groups, "No open spaces in 2022," suggesting that she's not doing this anymore or at least that this website is defunct (the last blog post was in 2024). But I might try to contact her anyway.

⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)

FYI, it looks like that's an outdated URL. It redirects to https://1ness.info.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Yes, that's why I didn't include Christiane before.

Let me know how these go.

Loving

[whoknows]

Thank you for responding to my musing about why ButtChair would be more efficacious than, say, following the breath.

It's probably not. It's just different.

But possibly those leading & guiding had not themselves seen. And then there is that whole story about it taking a long time. It doesn't.

From my understanding of and experience with Zen, especially koan practice, and from the way teachers grounded in Zen like Adyashanti and Angelo DiLullo incorporate elements of Advaita Vedanta, I’m getting the sense that some key elements needed for awakening are (1) believing that awakening is possible for oneself in this lifetime and that it doesn’t even need to take very long, (2) a preliminary intellectual understanding of the unreality of “self” as we usually imagine it (from something like dharma talks, satsang, jñana, or scripture study), and (3) deep inquisitiveness into the nature of self and reality (What is Mu? Who am I? Can I find a “self” here?). Plus, it probably helps also to have (4) one-on-one guidance from someone who is awake and (5) enough experience with meditation (or maybe cognitive therapy or something like that) to be able to disidentify with thoughts with some consistency.

LU seems to incorporate all of that except for the meditation part, and it seems that most folks who seek guidance from LU have at least a little bit of experience with meditation and often quite a lot.

Anyhow, getting back to it . . .

I did a quick session of ButtChair and found that I’m much better able to keep my attention on the butt-on-chair sensations when I keep my eyes open, which makes sense, since that’s is how I've almost always meditated, but for some reason I’d been closing my eyes for this practice. And as I’ve mentioned, I’m recently having good luck returning from thoughts to clear awareness of the present moment by putting my attention in my eyes and my sense of vision, and it does seem to work to return to that general awareness but with a sort of spotlight of attention on the butt-on-chair sensations.

Will try this some more later this evening.

[Anastacia42]

ButtChsir IS a meditation.

All of that analysis is what's holding g you back.

Loving

[whoknows]

Did 20 more minutes of ButtChair before dinner. Two things I noticed:
(1) My brain continues to insist that the sensations are separate from and at a distance from “me,” with “me” being in my head.
(2) Attending specifically to the butt-on-couch sensations felt a little “extra,” like it was cluttering up the moments of just being aware and not particularly lost in thought.

[Anastacia42]

My brain continues to insist that the sensations are separate from and at a distance from “me,” with “me” being in my head.

How does this feel in your gut?


Loving

[whoknows]

How does this feel in your gut?

Um . . . I dunno. A little frustrating, I guess.

[Anastacia42]

Frustrating is not DE.

What Body Sensations?

Contracted, relaxed, hot, cold. that kind of thing.

Loving,

[whoknows]

What Body Sensations?

Oh. Gotcha. It wasn't a very strong emotion, and now I'm trying to recreate it after the fact, so I'm not sure, but probably tightness in throat and constriction of breathing (which is how I seem to manifest most negative emotions). Possibly some tightness in face someplace?

[Anastacia42]

My brain continues to insist that the sensations are separate from and at a distance from “me,” with “me” being in my head.

The lie feeling.

See truth/lie pointer above.

So, please stop believing these lies.

Loving,

[whoknows]

My brain continues to insist that the sensations are separate from and at a distance from “me,” with “me” being in my head.

The lie feeling.

Hmm . . . It seems to me like a feeling of mild frustration from not yet having realized no-self.

So, please stop believing these lies.

I'd like to. But I can't seem to do that just by wanting to or deciding to.

[Anastacia42]

seems to me like a feeling of mild frustration from not yet having realized no-self.

Nope. You are here to UNlearn this.

All contractions indicate NO aka lies.

Please watch this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RnrkOD7 ... BphAoK764

But I can't seem to do that just by wanting to or deciding to.

True. That's what pointers are for - to point you to the truth.

Loving

[whoknows]

seems to me like a feeling of mild frustration from not yet having realized no-self.

Nope. You are here to UNlearn this.

All contractions indicate NO aka lies.

I don't think I'm quite following you here. If you're saying that I'm here at LU to unlearn believing in a "self," yes, I am, but I think maybe you're saying something different? And I don't understand the "Nope." Are you saying I don't feel mild frustration from not yet having realized no-self? Even if all contractions do indicate a NO, then it seems to me that, in this case, the NO is that I don't like feeling like I haven't reached this important goal.

Please watch this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RnrkOD7 ... BphAoK764

As described by this video, the "body yes" and "body no" are bodily sensations regarding what you want and don't want. So if I have a "body no" feeling, that means "I don't want this." In this case, I don't want to still be viewing the world as if there's a "self" separate from "my" experiences.

[Anastacia42]

Only a "self" can label a simple contraction/no feeling as "frustration. " It is part of the unlearning.

The "no" is there is no self. Whenever you have a thought based on self, such as the idea of frustration, you will feel "no."

You kind of have it backwards.

I don't want to still be viewing the world as if there's a "self" separate from "my" experiences.

But you are. That's the no.

There is already no "self."

Loving