Jewel of the Nagas

[Anastacia42]

From an email from Ilona

Nothing dramatic happened.

There were no fireworks.
No permanent bliss states.
No sudden personality changes.

And yet, something shifted.


Here are a few things people said afterwards:

“I’m not fighting my experience anymore. There’s more space around everything.”

“I expected something big to happen. Instead, life feels simpler and I trust myself more.”

“There’s less urgency. The seeking has softened.”


This is the kind of shift this work supports.

Ilona Cuinate

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

Can you find any separate self?

Short answer = no

There are sensations and thoughts labelled as self, but when sought for it cannot be found. These sensations and thoughts labelled as self ebb and flow, are not fixed or constant.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

How does it FEEL to see this? Body Sensations.



Loving,

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

How does it FEEL to see this? Body Sensations.

Body sensations feel unified, flowing, unbounded, unrestricted, free, calmly pleasurable.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

Excellent.

We have some traditional checkpoint questions. Would you like to try those now? Other guides will read them and may have questions.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

I will respond as soon as I can. Just to note that I'm working in the Hungarian woods all next week with limited time and limited access to the internet - I'll respond as best I can.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

That sounds interesting!

When you can is fine.

Loving,

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

Here are my responses before I disappear into the woods...

1) Is there a separate entity ‘self’, ‘me’ ‘I’, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No and no. The idea or thought of a separate self existed, and following that the idea or thought that it does not exist also existed. And of course, neither of these is true in actual experience.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it as fully as you can.

For me, the illusion is the sense that I am in control and at the centre of things; that I have agency over what happens around me, and if things do not work as I’d wish them then I am the one who is hurt.

It starts with an experience. For example, on a flight yesterday a woman asked if I’d change seats so she can sit with her husband and child – a perfectly reasonable request. At the time, I was comfortable and relaxed, but ‘in my own space’ as it were…a kind of alienated awareness. My initial response was from the point of view of self i.e. it’s an imposition on me and why do I have to move. Then, seeing it was easy for me to move seats I said it’d be fine and moved…but still with a sense of ‘well done me for being nice.’ Having moved seats, I could see all the selfing that had gone on and the unnecessary ‘reluctance’ to move – I saw that this was just an idea or thought which does not exist.

This experience is not uncommon. These are my habits, so that when a direct experience occurs there is the direct experience plus the habit from the past wrapped up in the response. Resting into non-self (no separate self) requires a conscious releasing or recognition of this as being true rather than the fixed view of self. Resting into non-self does not remove the ability to recognise there is a me going about doing things and making decisions, it lessens the tight grasping and craving for a particular outcome; it feels like operating from a wider field of perspective that includes a sense of a me doing things and so much more – a me within broader awareness that holds self.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the last few days.

Seeing this feels like a quiet joy, a sense of restful ease and contentment – a sense that I can function perfectly well in the world and whatever happens none of it matters. This is a feeling or response I’ve been resting into over a couple of years and slowly coming to trust more. It still requires intention, however, it is becoming more and more naturally available. For example, about 9 months ago I went through a period of a couple of weeks where sexual desire naturally dropped away and left a sense of spacious presence and ease.

Over the last few days, and going through Liberation Unleashed, is a gaining in confidence that this experience is authentic and can continue to unfold. There is also an increased trust in direct experience rather than learnings from what I’ve read or listened to.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The looking for me has always come from the point of suffering; this goes back many years and is more at the existential level rather than the grossly physical…although there is some of that as well. There is no one thing that pushed me over as far as I can tell, there is simply a strong and deep desire to discover the truth and wake up; to not waste my time.

5) Describe and give examples from your experience.

Describe intention and give examples from experience.

Intention for me is my planned desire to act in certain ways. For example, I have an intention to meditate daily. Many years ago this was an intention that needed a lot of support; recently this is an intention with a strong habit pattern behind it that it requires very little intention; and even more recently I tend to meditate as I feel it helpful as practice is not cushion based, rather how I act moment-by-moment. My intention mainly is the rest into stillness and I carry that throughout the day. Holding this intention patterns my habits and brings the intention more and more into present moment experience.

Describe free will and give examples from experience.

I’m not really clear what the term free will is meant to explain. All can say is this, there is no free will in the sense that I have the ability to control what happens to me – all I can control (on a good day) is how I respond to the world around me. Of course I can make choices to not put myself into certain situations (like not visiting a war zone) but I have no free will to prevent these things from happening. So does free will exist, yes if you mean do I have the ability to make choices, and no if you mean do I have the ability to control situations and outcomes.

Describe choice and give examples from experience.

I have choice in how I respond to situations around me. I can choose to read too much news and develop mild anxiety towards what’s going on in the world; or I can choose to keep a general eye on the news but not regularly check it. I can choose to avoid going to certain places knowing that either I will not like being there or that my habit patterns in such places are unskilful and lead to suffering. I can choose, to an extent, how I respond to situations happening around me. A couple of days ago I was in hospital with my wife waiting for her to have an appointment. Rather than waiting, I chose to sit and simply observe what was going on – noticing how well the receptionist did his job, how the nurses got on with their tasks, how other people arrived and checked in; what I did not have was a sense of time anxiety or waiting for my wife’s appointment to be called; I chose not to wait rather I chose to experience what was happening…and yes that included some ‘when will they get round to my wife’ but that was just a thought plus feeling which arose and passed.

Describe control and give examples from experience.

Control is when I choose not to be fixed on the outcomes, although control feels an odd work – control feels tight and restricting whereas not being fixed on outcomes is more a sense of freeing. The hospital visit above is one example. Another might be last night staying in a hotel I found it hard to sleep. I could have turned this into a sense of mental anxiety about feeling tired and needing sleep and getting frustrated, instead I chose to listen the radio, get up for a little while, and when returning to bed rather than trying to sleep I simply bought my attention low down in the body and relaxed – then sleep came. I chose to not try to control events I had little control over and instead control my responses (or act more skilfully).

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I’m not entirely clear what is being asked here. What makes things happen – planes take off, coffee beans to grow, shops to open on time? Does it really matter? Of course it matters on one level i.e. that of being able to live and meet daily needs. On another level it does not matter – what matters is how I respond to life around me: doing what I can to influence events and making them better for everyone, acting in ways which do not harm others, taking responsibility for my mental states, and in all this not holding on to fixed views and ideas.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing, everything. I went through Budapest airport yesterday and there is a new electronic entry system for non-EU nationals. Some news reports said there have been long queues of over 2-hours and lots of delays. I had read this and at the same time I knew I was still going to Budapest. On landing I ensured I left the plane and got to immigration as fast as I could and joined the queue – I chose to just observe what was going on (who was in the queue, who I recognised from my flight, what the staff were doing; I chose to smile and be polite; I chose not to allow expectations to overrule reality). In short, I was responsible for my mental states which in turn affect my actions – I was responsible for responding to the situation based on what was actually happening rather than on my expectations of what I’d like to happen.

6) Anything to add?

No

Warm wishes

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

These answers are full of selfing, and are mostly not Direct Experience.

Let's look more closely

the illusion is the sense that I am in control and at the centre of things;

If you know this experientially, how can you answer #5 as if you can do any of those things?

does free will exist, yes if you mean do I have the ability to make choices,

Please go back & look at Palm Flipping.

Then try another one:


Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Loving,

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

I am back from the Hungarian woodlands.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

There is no I making a choice; there are thoughts which are labelled as preferences; there is a feeling of labelled attraction towards some preferences over others; there is a feeling labelled desire for one drink over the other.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

No, preference falling into the background happened without my effort.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

There is a knowing that choice is taking place, but there is no separate self with a mental function of choosing.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

No, only choosing but no chooser.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Feeling just feels.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

Yes, good.

Please answer these again.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Your answers will be shared with other guides who may have questions.

Loving