Jewel of the Nagas

[Nagamani]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Simply that the self is a fabrication. Sense data comes in to form a 'picture' of the world. As this sense data appears to come into a 'single space', there is an assumption that this 'single space' is something and a self is imputed - as the self thickens it creates a role to defend itself. All this is created without a substantial footing.

What are you looking for at LU?
Ways to work with and clearly see through the fabricated sense of self - to see how the self is constructed, to observe self from a more boundless perspective, to have greater freedom over my sense of identity, and open up to, or rest into, reality.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Honest, thoughtful, provoking, authentic, sensitive communication. I don't expect anything - I'd appreciate guidance to see beyond narrow views of self and towards a resting into stillness that holds everything.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've practiced meditation in different Buddhist traditions since 1996. I am an ordained member of the Triratna Buddhist Order for almost nine years. Over the last 5 years or so my practice has focused on a mix of anapanasati meditation and inquiry inspired by Rodney Smith, Angello DiLullo and Rob Burbea.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Honest, thoughtful, provoking, authentic, sensitive communication.

I will do my best. Mostly I will be giving you pointers to do, since this is all about doing, not theorizing or thinking.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

Thank you for your response, that is much appreciated.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can either use my civil name which is Richard, or the name given to me when I was ordained into the Triratna Buddhist Order which is Nagamani. I live in the UK, so currently GMT +1.

My responses to your questions are...

How will life change?

I don’t expect my life to change, but perhaps the way I orientate to or within life will change. I’m not expecting I’ll suddenly realise anatta and be transported into some other ‘realm’ rather that, for example, I will see how my perceived self fabricates my world and realise this is a fabrication and that I do not need to believe or cling to it. I imagine this will be more spacious and bring about a greater sense of ease and peace.

How will you change?

I think I started to respond to this above, unless the focus is on the ‘you’ in the question – if that is the case then I imagine the sense of ‘you’ will become much lighter and provisional, as if the self is only one way of responding in any given situation.

How will I change? My sense is that there is an unfolding experience of surrender; surrendering a resistance into a more boundless space – a space that at least for now feels known and in which a sense of me still resides, but that sense of me is far less contracted and bound by a narrow need to reaffirm this narrow sense of me.

What will be different?

The sense of being unconsciously dragged by emotions and volitions will have lessened. There will be more space to see and choose my responses wisely and based on what actions that lead to greater freedom rather than tightening the bonds that tie me to a limited sense of self.

What is missing?

The trust to let go of the need to have a fixed identity.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

Hi Nagamani/Richard,

You're welcome.

Your expectations are mostly reasonable. It's a process and will take some time. This is only a beginning.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

What comes up is that this is true and unimaginable. I can have glimpses of the sense of self falling away – or perhaps opening up would be a better expression – and being less sticky, yet even during those glimpses there definitely appears to be a me experiencing it, or at least something experiencing. It feels intuitively true, and this comes from knowing how the clinging to a sense of self is a cause of much of my suffering. Yet, despite being intuitively true, if feels like a paradox.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

Thank you.

There is already no "self." It is only a thought, a lie, plus a contraction sensation, but let's discover that.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Nagamani]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

This is clear.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Show that clarity here:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Nagamani]

Thanks. I've been traveling all day so will report back tomorrow.

[Anastacia42]

Sure. That's fine.

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

I sat on my sofa with this exercise last night, and this is what I wrote:

Putting words to experience breaks its directness. Even adding a word like moving with regard to a bush blowing in the wind adds layers of recognition - previous knowing that layers itself upon direct experience.

As soon as I say/recognise ‘movement’ regarding the car reversing out of the driveway as I am seeing now, a bunch of additional layers arrive around make, model, who’s car, etc.

Looking with direct experience I can see colour; within that there is knowing of the colour as yellow without a need to name it as such. (I’m looking at a yellow van over the road from me)

There is also a joy that arises with this direct experiencing (or perhaps not so direct?); a deep relaxation as a natural way of being - relaxed observation without engagement … knowing is present but not engagement; or it might be more accurate to say that engagement flickers in and out. In this space thoughts and views arise, and although known, they can be released almost as soon as they are recognised.

It’s possible to move in and out of direct seeing. For example, I can see movement of trees on the horizon, I then name this as trees ‘moving’ and then drop the trees and just return to movement. With some ‘relaxed focus’ it’s possible to stay with as little laying on top of experience - for example my wife moves cutlery in a draw, I hear sound, recognise it as cutlery, then drop it back into sound.

I find that naming and language creates a separation from direct experience; a duality that widens with the greater complexity of thought and language.

Just looking, the object and I interpenetrate - the distance contracts and happens in a wider space at the same time.

I realise this is not quite the exercise you asked for but I am trying to give a sense of what was going on. Adding the filter of an exercise on top of the experience feels distorting. I can create a list as you suggested, but that feels like mental activity rather than direct experience.

All this said, I’ll keep with the exercise.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

Yes, please do the exercise as given.

Yours has way too much thinking in it.

Follow the format exactly. This shows you can distinguish DE from the content of thoughts.

Thank you,

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

Observing view from library:

Seeing cars - movement
Hearing music - sound
People whispering - sound
People walking - movement
Quietening sound - feeling
Flags - colour
Gazing into the distance - seeing
Watching someone take out ear buds - movement
Vibrations from loud music - feeling
Opinion forming - thoughts
Boredom - feeling
Aware of time - thought
Relaxing - feeling
Yellow jacket - colour
Watching people - feeling
Watching someone riding on pavement - thought
Reading book titles - feeling
Checking time - feeling
Watching men enter pub - thought and feeling
Young man running to train station - feeling and movement
Bus passing by - movement
People walking up street - movement.

For some reason I am struggling to login to the website via my laptop - phone is OK. Any advice? Password and username are correct.

With metta

Nagamani

[Anastacia42]

The site was down for a couple of days. Other than that, I don't know.

Movement is not in the list of DE. Please look again at those. Use ONLY what is listed on Green above. The purpose of this is to teach you to distinguish between direct experience and the content of thought.

This is important.

"Self".is content of thought not direct experience.

Loving

[Nagamani]

Hello Stacy

Washing up
Watching plates and cutlery, simply = seeing
Observing water flowing from the tap, simply = seeing
Placing hands in warm water, simply = feeling
Touching the smooth surface of a plate, simply = feeling
Smelling dish soap, simply = smell
Listening to water splashing in the sink, simply = hearinf
Listening to clinking of cutlery, simply = hearing
Thinking about finishing the washing up, simply = thought

Listening to the rain
Watching light at the window, simply = seeing
Looking at raindrops on glass, simply = seeing
Listening to rain hitting the roof, simply = hearing
Listening to rain tapping the window, simply = hearing
Feeling the cool air on skin, simply = feeling
Smelling the damp air, simply = smell
Thinking about the weather, simply = thought

With metta

Nagamani