liberation

[sensey]

What is the sensation of ‘decider’? Where is it? What are its qualities?

I can’t find the sensation of a “decider”. It is just happening. Decision. No qualities, no place.

[graceabounds]

Hi Ilya.

Ok.

Please read and say to yourself several times: *There is no separate self, there never was, there never will be*

After each time you read or say it, notice what happens, feelings, sensations, thoughts, movements... And write here what is noticed.

Don't try to get anything right, just share what is seen, unfiltered. Generally this process will be driven by seeing what is already happening, what is already the case. What is effortlessly seen while engaging questions and exercises is what is important. What you actually write me is secondary to that.

Much love,
Becca

[sensey]

there is a freeze, thoughts stop, some sensation occurs in the chest, and there is a feeling of heaviness in the upper part of the head. Body is relaxing. And deep breath in and then deep breath out occurs with relaxation.

[graceabounds]

In any of this sensation does there appear to be a centering point of ‘me’? or a center to experience itself?
In the chest or the head?

[sensey]

No. It is just a sensations.

[graceabounds]

So very good. There’s no decider, no center, is there a thinker?

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organized sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

[sensey]

There’s no decider, no center, is there a thinker?

No, there is no thinker also.

Where are they coming from and going to?

from nowhere. I can't see any place where they appear and where they go.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

no. just watching. but they just come without my efforts.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

I didn,t do that because exercise was to ignore the thoughts but not trying to do something else with it.

Can you predict your next thought?

No. I can't.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts? Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No. I can't do it.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

I didn't catch this question. What does it mean?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It is not possible. I can't prevent.

[graceabounds]

Very good.

Now outside this exercise, can you choose thought?

Can you deliberately produce a very specific thought on command?

And can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

[sensey]

Now outside this exercise, can you choose thought?

yes i can choose. but i can't say it is me. it is just chooses.

Can you deliberately produce a very specific thought on command?

same with previous question. some thoughts are automatic and some can deliberately produce, but then automatic thoughts come and attention move to that thoughts.

And can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

"me" - it is also a thought. there is feeling. but is a thought who is saying "it is me".

[graceabounds]

What/where is feeling of me?

[sensey]

What/where is feeling of me?

I don't know. Can't explain it. Just feeling. But thought come that this feeling it is "I" feeling. I can't say where is it. It is just feeling of existing.

[graceabounds]

So is there any sensation that is me? Is there a feeling of existing that has a subject doing the existing or could it be that there is simply… existing? happening…

If no sensation can be found, does that ‘I thought’ point to anything?

[sensey]

So is there any sensation that is me? Is there a feeling of existing that has a subject doing the existing or could it be that there is simply… existing? happening…

No. There is no sensation that me. And feeling of existing just happening.

If no sensation can be found, does that ‘I thought’ point to anything?

Sorry Becca. I didn’t understand this question

[graceabounds]

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

If no sensation can be found, does that ‘I thought’ point to anything?

Sorry Becca. I didn’t understand this question

Going back to the above exercise, is there something that emerges with the use of ‘I’ that is being pointed to?

[sensey]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The 2nd one is more true. when I didn't use "I". Just wrote what was happening. And I wrote more then when I wrote with "I"

2. What is here without labels?

just action. somethings happening. fingers are typing. eyes watching. breathing and etc. it is just happening

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

I am not sure that I understand correctly this question.
Yes. Labels affect the experience. When I did't use "I" it was just experience without labels and without affects the experience.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

In the second exercise body feeling was more comfortable. more relax I guess. Less discomfort.

Going back to the above exercise, is there something that emerges with the use of ‘I’ that is being pointed to?

no, i don't think so