Am here to deconstruct my ‘self’

[Jarf1shRaw]

What is this “I” that exists beyond anything?

Inquiring on this just brought up a profound sense of nothing. Like an inner quiet that felt palpable and real yet made of nothing. It probably can't be described with words. Then there was thought which suggested 'I' did something to aquire this and I need to remember how to do it to keep doing it and sustain this glimpse of eternity. The thought was seen as thought however, but then the sense faded and 'I' was back into 'me' doing things around the house.

It's true though that most of this time, there was this belief in another layer of thought of there being an I which is the perceiver like being the screen of consciousness, but even that can't be located and there is a boundless feel to this! Thanks for pointing it out as it was so subtle.

So there's now been a tendency to write to you in less of a 'I/me' way but for day to day life this is where language won't permit the direct experience way of communication right? The question is should this be used as an opportunity to see the mechanism in play and change the tendency to communicate like a 'me' to a 'you' just on this thread or would it be beneficial to carry it into other areas of life as well? Like where ever it's permitted, and if it's in inappropriate settings like work emails then no?

Love

[graceabounds]

Beautiful work.

Keep inquiring. Again: What is this I that exists beyond anything?

Or try this:
When seeing something, is there any division between seeing, seer, and the seen?
Are these three separate?

The thought was seen as thought however, but then the sense faded and 'I' was back into 'me' doing things around the house.

Did 'you' return or after that thought that was seen as thought came was there another that said, “I'm back?"

Right now, in the middle of this ordinary moment, is there an actual “I” doing anything?

And to the last question, play with it, in time the inauthenticity aspect will fade and those words will be used and be empty of self. For now, use each time it comes up as an opportunity to look freshly for 'I', to play with what comes without it, but no need to write weird emails at the office. :)

Big Love.

[Jarf1shRaw]

What is this I that exists beyond anything?

^^ It's funny when inquiring on this there is no object to describe and yet when there was an identity forming with this spiritual interest of being 'infinite space/awareness' but even they were just labels. Without realising, I was looking for what infinite space would feel like trying to make myself realise truth through concepts, even though it already is.

Did 'you' return or after that thought that was seen as thought came was there another that said, “I'm back?"

No. This is just thought again you're right. So it's a constant oscillation between entanglement in thought and inquiring on where the 'I' actually is? The moments of clarity are compelling enough to keep this in the forefront of the mind.

no need to write weird emails at the office

Phew hahaha. They already think I'm in my own world enough as it is!

Love

[graceabounds]

Nice dismantling of the awareness sand trap.

So it's a constant oscillation between entanglement in thought and inquiring on where the 'I' actually is?

:)

Is the one who gets entangled in thought anything other than…. another thought?

What is here that is not a thought? Take a look…

The moments of clarity are compelling enough to keep this in the forefront of the mind.

Is this smuggling in a do-er that needs to hold onto something to achieve something?

They already think I'm in my own world enough as it is!

And just for good measure…
Are there others?
Look in direct experience, what is here?

[Jarf1shRaw]

Thanks I'll digest this over the next couple days and get back to you!

[graceabounds]

Digest. Look.
❤️

[Jarf1shRaw]

Is the one who gets entangled in thought anything other than…. another thought?

This has been helpful. It feels a lot lighter when inquiring on this as it leaves no room for narratives to form.

Also something I noticed today was how unaware I was of anger in a response of mine when someone honked their horn at me whilst I was picking up dog poo and had to stand a little in the road for it. I started shouting violently at them with the mind going to reasons to justify this anger like the fact they had loads of space in the road and I had to step of the pavement because I had two puppies, that they're just in their bubble in a car and want something to be angry at etc. But all while this was happening there was an awareness of the fact that this is all thought/assumptions, is not me, and it was like I could see this mechanism in play, yet there was a desire to condemn even though I know it's an illusion that leads to suffering.

I know the anger is an emotion which is subject to change and moving up from within, but in some moments like this, there is a forgetfulness of this and it seems I haven't realised it, the mind only knows it intellectually. -- Is this because again this 'personality' is already an added layer blocking that which doesn't need to forgive because it never even blames in the first place and just feels the raw emotions without labels?

Appreciate it!

[graceabounds]

There is an equation I like to use to look deeper here:

Thought + Sensation = Emotion

What you are doing here is looking at the story underlying the anger that emerged in this situation. If the story is not true, the equation collapses and the emotion quickly dissipates.

Another way to approach it is to dive straight into the sensations that are emerging in the body, unhook them from the thought stories, and let them process through. So in this case there were probably some heart rate increases and sensations maybe labeled fear that happened first as the body itself reacted to almost being hit. So the idea would be to stay with those raw sensations and notice the anger happens next, and may even be related to discomfort with those initial sensations in the body.

Don’t worry about getting it all at once, some of these layers of reactivity actually fall away after seeing through self, but explore this formula from both angles as day to day reactivity happens and you notice emotions arising.

Also, to your question:

The personality is not a person. It’s a repeating pattern, a loop of thoughts, reactions, memories, etc that OWNS these responses.

When you saw the reaction was not me was that a thought investigation or a direct experience from looking? If you look now can you find a me?

Is there a victim here in this story, a central character this happened to?

Can you find a who that is now reflecting on all this? Who holds it close?

:)

[Jarf1shRaw]

Nice. Will use that equation as much as possible.

probably some heart rate increases and sensations maybe labeled fear

Funny because this is exactly what was noticed as it was unfolding and the words were coming out of the mouth in this reactive pattern.

Also, been travelling abroad hence the slow response but back on internet now with laptop so will be more active on here.

When you saw the reaction was not me was that a thought investigation or a direct experience from looking?

Yes actually that must've been a reflective thought, damn they're sticky! But the whole experience itself felt like being an actor in a movie set. Or like being possessed, either way it does tie into what you were saying about the personality being a repeated pattern. It's just automatic by the looks of it.

How come it feels like vigilance is needed in this path to stay aware of these patterns and watch the mind adding layers if there's actually no one behind the wheel?

Dunno if that was a pointless question but I'm just trying to see how deep we can go lol ^^

Also I will get back to you with recent on goings with the 'others' in life at the moment and what it's been pointing too or how the mind is latching on!

Much love

[graceabounds]

haha great question

Because the illusion of “someone behind the wheel” is the oldest reflex (or trick, or illusion) in the system. This possession you are noticing is that autopilot response. Needs no one.

Autopilot engaged. Internal shouting comes:
“Stay present.”
“Watch the thought.”
“Don’t forget.”
“Remain the witness.”
“Be vigilant.”
They’re just thoughts, arising in the empty field as if someone is driving.

But when you look?
There’s no driver.

So vigilance is just another arising, another part of the movie.

Look now.
Where is the one who needs to stay?
Where is the one who would forget?
Who, exactly, is responsible for watching?

Is there anything to guard? :)

[Jarf1shRaw]

So vigilance is just another arising, another part of the movie.

Wow. It's like you said the train has already left.

I can't find me in any of this, yet there is a feeling that it is everything and nothing at the same time. I still notice what feels like limitations take certain social situations for example, like the idea of what people will think and seeing them as separate entities, but when I feel into the sensations which feel 'limiting' I can't find a boundary and I can also not find a separate viewer/viewing/what is being viewed either. It's all included.

Also yesterday there was another moment of what felt like facing deep shadow whilst being with my mum and my nan (my dad who passed's mum). My mum was drunk and was in deep state of grief and my nan too was mourning over her son, yet she seemed more inquisitive in talking about what helps and what we have in our power to best come out of this. My mum was almost delirious at this point and was just shutting down any solution and that there's no way of becoming 'unbroken'. Whereas my nan asked me what my solution is, so only then I started to talk about awakening through meeting the pain fully without mind. I understand that ultimately none of what I say matters and that it is a truth that can only be realised 'personally'. Yet my nan seemed to grasp it, but they probably just see it as a philosophy, and not for them now. -- Either way, i take it this is also an automatic pattern, another thing that arises and doesn't matter if I do or don't share.

Another thing that was noticed was the mind latching onto the disillusions my mum is talking from and how quickly thoughts of wanting to point out the patterns that are making her life hell, crowded my mind. It feels like insanity playing out but it is innocent at the same time. I guess it goes back to what you were saying about vigilance, because it's an un-wiring of deep seated patterns, and the mind is now focused on 'awakening' there is a urge to do things 'right' and not get entangled in thought so there are more thoughts which arise pretending to be the 'conscious one' who needs to awaken. When watching my mum in despair I kept repeating in my head a course in miracles quote "I know you will be released, unless I would use you to imprison myself" and for the most part it felt it made things much lighter. However, then there'd be moments where attention would get sucked back into illusion by believing there was a problem in all of this and something needed to be done to fix/change the situation.

My question would be should I relax into it when it feels like there's entanglement in thought and just let it happen, like all that is needed is to SEE it all arising without deriving a self in any of it?

Sorry for the paragraphs haha

[graceabounds]

Hello dear,

I think there is a quote Tolle uses that originally came from Ram Dass… goes something like “you think you’re so enlightened, go and spend a week with your parents…” :)

The core of the self-illusion/delusion evolves in relationship to those who are present when it is decided I am “not this” “not this”. There are lots of layers of entangled belief here, so holidays are the gift that keeps giving, before awakening and after.

You are noticing one pattern here, the desire to fix. So the answer to your question is, yes relax into it, but not as a back door attempt to fix anything. :)

The question is: is there anyone who can control what is happening? Was there ever?

Is anything inherently ‘wrong’?

[Jarf1shRaw]

“you think you’re so enlightened, go and spend a week with your parents…” :)

Haha this is spot on.

The core of the self-illusion/delusion evolves in relationship to those who are present when it is decided I am “not this” “not this”. There are lots of layers of entangled belief here, so holidays are the gift that keeps giving, before awakening and after.

It is a gift. I forget that sometimes when there's entanglement.

is there anyone who can control what is happening? Was there ever?

Is anything inherently ‘wrong’?

1. It feels like there is sometimes, but when I look closer I can't find them. Like there's been times where I've been pro-active in the world with taking action towards goals, but then was that just an automatic pattern of 'drive/ambition' arising at the time? Then there's been times when I've gone to do something and been hesitant and passive in not taking action, even though the mind would've wanted to, and it feels like there's an internal divide.

2. No I can't say there is. The (sensation + thought = emotions) make it feel like there is. Or maybe that's just another thought but it's been happening for so long it goes unnoticed sometimes and just seems like hell that people live in.

[graceabounds]

Let’s look at exactly how choice and control works by breaking it down. This is a super simple exercise.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Like there's been times where I've been pro-active in the world with taking action towards goals, but then was that just an automatic pattern of 'drive/ambition' arising at the time?

After working through that exercise, multiple times if need be, is there anyone who could be pro-active or take action towards goals?

:)

[Jarf1shRaw]

Just did the exercise for about 15 minutes. Started doing it whilst I was reading your post and yeah the impulse of which hand to do it was automatic, then so was the frequency of how many times the hand would turn over and the pace it was going.

Then there were thoughts saying when to do it and trying to suggest that the thought was to move certain muscles in my wrist/hand but I was aware these were just thoughts. There was also a moment where the movement was random and it was like the mind was trying to predict when the hand would move but also again tell it when to move.

anyone who could be pro-active or take action towards goals?

No. There's no one to be found although the mind suggests there is in thought.

Overall, in my direct experience of doing this there was no decision point that I could locate and it seemed to be happening spontaneously of it's own accord. Definitely a cool exercise that I'll do more often throughout my week, it also felt quite weird almost like being in a lucid dream and realising your dreaming!

Also I thought I'd mention that today I had a moment where I pointed out a flaw in my mum's thinking when she was projecting her anger onto my nan to me. Very shortly after I realised the tendency to fix had arisen and I had bit the bait, and I know she felt bad when I pointed out some of the things she was saying. A feeling of guilt was attached to this as she didn't respond when I said bye and left for my walk. As I walked, I noticed the thoughts about how I went unconscious and did what I shouldn't of done, I noticed the thoughts linking to the future and trying to figure out how I would've handled that differently and what to say next. But noticed these were all thoughts etc. I felt into the emotions and saw the autonomy in it all. I can see that it's all belief in what's not there that binds us in guilt, so getting back into the senses was good. It feels like a cycle still but just now I'm more aware of it happening. I would like to stay aware of it more often though so I don't have to forgive if I never condemn.

In my walk there were moments of deep peace though, like when I walked past a river and looked at the current and it felt like the sound completely absorbed the 'me' and I 'the perceiver', the 'water/visual' and the 'sound' were all the same.

I also noticed there was more awareness in the senses and less mind activity as the walk went on, so not a bad day and as soon as I got back I made up with my mum who was seemed very down still even though I wasn't angry at her anymore.