Hi Nelson
I would advise to read the whole reply as the answers/questions compliment each other...even if you have to answer in parts. I know you already know the answers but have a fresh look as awlays - seeing again and again...until the penny drops
The “I” thought claiming ownership.
Yes. That’s the only thing—just a thought saying, this is happening to me.
But now that it’s seen…
what happens if that thought isn’t believed?
You said the “I thoughts” claim ownership. But look!
Are they special thoughts - different from the rest? Can a thought do anything or just appears… A thought is just a flicker, a cloud in the sky. It has no hands, no control, no power—until it’s
believed (
by whom)
Right now, look:
Can a thought stop or start anything?
Can it force an action?
Can it own an experience?
Or does it just show up, seeming to be in charge—like a narrator of a movie that’s already playing?
Back to believing...Belief isn’t some separate “thing”—it’s just a sensation paired with a thought.
Check right now:
First of all, is there a believer?
When a thought feels true, what’s present?
Isn’t there a subtle tension, a pull, a contraction somewhere?
Now, what happens when you simply notice that sensation, without assuming the thought it’s paired with means anything?
Does the belief hold, or does it start dissolving on its own?
I can see that this is pretty simple: there is just this happening, including a thought story about an “I”, where it claims ownership of the experience and “actions”. This happening is a mystery. But I have the impression that I need to see this again, again and again, because, most of the time, this is more an intellectual/empirical understanding. It is not something instinctive. Usually, I have to remember this, and check on experience, to kind of “zoom out”. The experience itself changes when doing this.
Yes, exactly. Seeing this isn’t about one realization and then it’s over—it’s about noticing, again and again, how the illusion plays out in real-time.
But notice this:
Each time you check, each time you zoom out, what happens?
The illusion momentarily collapses, and clarity is obvious.
So is there really a you who forgets, who needs to “hold onto” this? Or is it just that identification sneaks back in when it isn’t being looked at?
Right now, in this moment—without remembering, without effort—what’s left, when there’s no reference to a self?
"Crossing the gate" is only a beginning, not an end. Crossing the Gate is only a step over a line—an imagined one at that. Nothing changed, but everything looks different. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all the "mess", to settle in and adjust.
When someone we know dies, it takes time for that to "sink in". It's not that we don't believe that the person has died. It is just they are still part of our lives - we open the wardrobe and their clothes are still there, we walk in the park and we remember when we used to do it together. It takes time to readjust our lives to living without them. That process of “sinking in” can be observed in many other situations – like being diagnosed with a life changing disease, losing a job that we had for a long time etc. Even though the change is sudden and quick, it can be perceived as a long process – it can feel as though something is still sinking in, or hasn’t yet sunk in.
The point applies equally to habitual patterns of thought and activity, which similarly reflect how our lives are organised. When the established patterns of a life are disturbed, thought cannot adapt to all of this in an instant, simply by revising all of our old beliefs. Much of the old organisation lingers on, in the guise of a world that we continue to experience and in habitual patterns of thought and activity that our surroundings continue to elicit. That very much applies to seeing the illusion of an “I” - it’s quite a sudden change with a relatively long process of adapting to this change. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all old beliefs and conditioning - you don't have just one "I-thought".
To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little you will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply being.
There might still be expectations, confusion, and doubt. That’s quite normal at this stage. You may be swaying between “I get it” and “I don’t get it.” You may be thinking that this is not enough, that some experiences need to happen, that you should be happy and blissful all the time. When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS. And look again:
what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence/absence of doubtful thoughts)? And does it mean that there is anyone/anything that hasn’t seen through the illusion of self or are there simply thoughts still lingering unchecked…
I don’t know if this is just a matter of seeing again, again and again until it clicks. I almost know what you will ask: “but who needs to see again, again, and again?” :)
Ha! You saw it coming. But let’s not leave it as just an expectation—look directly.
Who needs to see again and again?
Right now, is there actually someone struggling to "get it"?
Or is there just a thought saying, I still need to see this more deeply—and then another thought "believing" that?
What happens if even that thought is left alone, just another passing cloud?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti
