A hard case?

[Sunyata1]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That what is here is not an individual, something separate, in control of its own life. The mind tries to simplify reality, which is continuous, by discretizing it into "things." And over time we come to believe that these "things" exist.

To understand this, however, is not the same as to live it.

What are you looking for at LU?
To see and know, without a doubt, that there is no self, and that there has never been a self.

I'm in this path for more than a decade, and had some experiences and shifts, but, in the end, I still believe that I am this body.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be guided to see that there is no self. Essentially, the guide will be asking questions, and I will be answering them from direct experience.

I'm familiar of the Direct Pointing method used by LU.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been struggling with depression for a long time. More than a decade ago, I stumbled upon the concept of Spiritual Enlightenment, and since then I've been studying and practicing everything I come across, believing that this could be a way out. That, maybe, there is another way of living, more freely and joyful.

In 2012, I had a temporary No-Self experience with the help of a guide from the Liberation Unleashed community, where, for a few seconds, all that seemed to exist was just an eternal now. In 2018, apparently, I had a permanent shift during the Finders Course, an awakening program created by Dr. Jeffery Martin. Initially it was fascinating, but over time I started to have motivation problems, while still identified with the body, creating a feeling of helplessness that persists to this day.

Currently, I am lost. On the one hand, my sensorial experience hasn't been the same since my transition during the Finders Course. It is more clear, and vivid, and there is this feeling that everything is just appearing in consciousness. But on the other hand, I'm still identified with the body.. It ends up being the worst of both worlds, because the ambitions and beliefs of always no longer seem to have the same appealing, but at the same time I'm identified with this person, and I don't know what to do.

I feel like I'm "half-baked". I've seen too much to go back, but at the same time I don't know how to move forward. Recently, I've been studying Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta more deeply, but it seems like it would take me centuries to follow this pathes. And they even seem to contradict each other. While Advaita Vedanta seems to believe that Consciousness is the fundamental reality. Most Buddhist schools seems to believe that even Consciousness is empty.

I don't know what path to take, and it seems like I have nothing to hold on to. I really need some guidance.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[poppyseed]

Hi Sunyata1
(is that what you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.
What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

Thank you so much for taking the time to guide me. I know this is voluntary work. I'll do my best.

Is that what you want me to call you?

You can call me Nelson, that is my name.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Yes, I've read it.

What time zone are in?

I'm in Brazil (GMT-3).

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation.

Ok.

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.

Awesome. Let's do it.

Best,
Nelson

[poppyseed]

Hi Nelson
Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :).

I'm in Brazil (GMT-3).

I'm GMT+2. We have a bit of a difference but we’ll manage

Awesome. Let's do it.

Great!

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic.

Ok!

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

Ok, I guess some of them are bs.

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

I won't believe anymore that I am “Nelson”, nor this body. I will be able to see clearly that there is just one thing going on, call it Life or God, and that I am that.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

After realizing that there is no separate self, life will be more joyfull, and free from all psychological suffering caused by identifing with “Nelson”, especially free from this feeling of not being enough.

Maybe I'll be able to see that everything is in fact okay, even the bad things that we see every day in the world. Maybe I'll be able to realize that there is no death.

3. What do you want not to happen?

I don't want to fool myself into trading one belief for another. I don't want to end even more confused than I'am now, feeling that everything essentially doesn't matter but at the same time identifying with this body. I don't want to become a worst person, nor stop helping my family.

4. What are you hoping for?

To live more freely.

5. What is missing?

Happiness.

Best,
Nelson

[poppyseed]

Hi Nelson

Thank you for your honesty! It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions were a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary. Is that OK with you?

I don't want to fool myself into trading one belief for another. I don't want to end even more confused than I'am now, feeling that everything essentially doesn't matter but at the same time identifying with this body.

It's understandable to be apprehensive about embracing new concepts, especially when they challenge long-held beliefs and raise concerns about potential negative consequences. The process of inquiring can be unsettling, leading to doubts and fears about losing oneself, becoming apathetic, or even behaving unethically. However, this is not about replacing one set of beliefs (e.g., the belief in a separate self) with another (e.g., the belief in no-self), but rather about cultivating looking at and directly experiencing reality as it is.

Focusing solely on intellectual understanding or achieving specific states can lead to spiritual bypassing, where one uses spiritual concepts to avoid confronting uncomfortable emotions or challenging situations. The true transformation comes from honest self-inquiry, observation of thoughts and emotions without judgment, and a willingness to confront the discomfort that arises as the illusion of self dissolves.
This inquiry is about a shift just of perception. How can an illusion have experiences/lack of them? An illusion is an illusion. It has never existed and it never will…

I don't want to become a worst person, nor stop helping my family.

On the contrary! But tell me…
Do you expect that somehow you are going to turn into a zombie or a vegetable? Life expresses itself and "we" are part of this expression. In some way, we get the idea that we are life and we dictate what is happening, we think, we do things and we need protection but when we examine this closely, we see it for what it is - just a mirage, an illusion. There is no doer and thinker. Things are just happening.

What we’ll see soon is that fear is just a sensation with a thought. Fear has a purpose – to protect old ways, conditioning, beliefs, hopes - the survival of the imaginary self. In this case it protects “you” from changing and losing your “humanity” (emotions). So, obviously when threatened there will be fear involved. But once it is seen that there is nothing that needs protection, it falls away. Why would the absence of something that has NEVER existed cause a change in existing stuff?
You probably believed in Santa when you were little. There was magic and joy, and love, and giving, and caring. When you realised that Santa is not real, did Christmas change? Did the spirit of Christmas disappear or just the belief in Santa?

How we deal with fear initially, is to acknowledge it, thank it for doing its job, allow it to be there, don’t fight it. Then you look carefully what it is protecting and ask yourself if this protection is really necessary...

The key is to approach this journey with an open mind, a willingness to question your beliefs, and a commitment to honestly observing your experiences without judgment.

Now… If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?
Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary. Is that OK with you?

Ok, I'll set my expectations aside.

But just one question, please. Feel free to ignore it if it doesn’t matter. You say that it is just a subtle shift in perception. Even though it’s subtle, I won’t have any doubt that there isn’t a self, right?

I had some shifts in the past, but I still believe that I'm this body. Only once, for a second, I was able to see that there is no self, only an eternal now.

How can an illusion have experiences/lack of them?

An Illusion can't have/do anything. It is just a misperception. It doesn't really exist.

Do you expect that somehow you are going to turn into a zombie or a vegetable?

No, but sometimes I can see that I'm afraid of taking a path that I don’t like after the belief in a separate self is gone. There’s this need to maintain control over life, to steer life in the direction that I want, even though I understand that, probably, nothing is actually in control.

Why would the absence of something that has NEVER existed cause a change in existing stuff?

This is a tricky one. I get that the absence of something that has never existed can't cause a change in existing things. But the removal of the belief in a separate self can. People act differently after realizing there is no separate self. However, I guess this difference doesn’t matter so much when it is seeing that life was always happening by itself.

Did Christmas change? Did the spirit of Christmas disappear or just the belief in Santa?

Yes, just the belief disappeared. Santa couldn't disappear because it never existed in the first place.

If you look for the I, what is there?

Just the experience, including this sense of being the experiencer.

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

A relief.

Where exactly did you look?

In direct experience, and thoughts.

What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?

There are colors, sensations, sounds, thoughts, and this impression of being the perceiver. There is this belief that, for an experience to happen, there must be an experiencer, and that this experiencer is probably the body.

Best,
Nelson

[poppyseed]

Hi Nelson

But just one question, please. Feel free to ignore it if it doesn’t matter. You say that it is just a subtle shift in perception. Even though it’s subtle, I won’t have any doubt that there isn’t a self, right?

Yes, and hopefully you will know what doubt actually is ;)

No, but sometimes I can see that I'm afraid of taking a path that I don’t like after the belief in a separate self is gone. There’s this need to maintain control over life, to steer life in the direction that I want, even though I understand that, probably, nothing is actually in control.

Yes there is a desire for control, but is there really control or controler? But we’ll see about it a bit later

Just the experience, including this sense of being the experiencer.

There is this belief that, for an experience to happen, there must be an experiencer, and that this experiencer is probably the body.

Thank you for your honest reply! Before we start looking for that experiencer let’s just make sure/double check that you understand how to LOOK for no self in the exercises:
Looking is a matter of noticing what is already here, not inventing or imagining something. If I ask you to look for your phone or keys, you would quite naturally, take a look and locate them. That’s how to look.
Looking is finding out what is true in experience. It is a nonverbal action of focusing attention on a target. Thinking is verbal—it is naming experience. Both work together as one mechanism. If you can’t see for yourself, you cannot describe it in your own words (but you can attempt to describe it using someone else’s words, from memory).

So, there is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is another example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use this photo of an apple or a real apple.



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, colour(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

Yes there is a desire for control, but is there really control or controler? But we’ll see about it a bit later

I have no idea how the body moves or how thoughts are created, but since the body is ‘me', these movements and thoughts are 'mine.' This control, if it exists, is unconscious. But, sure, we can explore this later. I am probably pretty wrong about this :)

You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

Right.

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

All that can be found in direct experience are sensory data (colors, sensations, sounds, tastes, smells) and thoughts.

While holding an apple, all that can be found are colors, sensations, and thoughts about an 'apple.' We never really see an apple in direct experience; we only infer that it is there.

But it may or may not be there, right? The point is that, at least in direct experience, we never really find things, only sensory data and thoughts. Am I missing something?

This apple exercise is great, thank you.

Best,
Nelson

[poppyseed]

Hi Nelson

All that can be found in direct experience are sensory data (colors, sensations, sounds, tastes, smells) and thoughts.

While holding an apple, all that can be found are colors, sensations, and thoughts about an 'apple.' We never really see an apple in direct experience; we only infer that it is there.

Very good!

But it may or may not be there, right? The point is that, at least in direct experience, we never really find things, only sensory data and thoughts. Am I missing something?

Agreed! “Apple” is a thought/label that points to sensations, taste, smell, and colour, but there is no an actual apple as an “object”. “Object” is another general label/thought that points to just hearing (sound), seeing (colour), feeling (sensation), smelling (smell), and tasting (taste). Clear?

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= colour (seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (thinking)

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

I just want you to know that I am really glad to have you as a guide. I was getting crazy wrestling with this subject alone. Thank you so much.

By the way, sometimes I might sound confrontational in some responses, but that’s not my intention, okay? I only respond this way so you can know what’s going through my mind.

Clear?

Yes.

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

Seeing a glass of water, simply = colour (seeing)
Feeling the cold of the glass, simply = sensation (feeling)
Feeling the cold of the water on the lips, simply = sensation (feeling)

Hearing a car passing by, simply = sound (hearing)

Feeling the butt on the chair, simply = sensation (feeling)

Seeing the computer screen, simply = colour (seeing)
Typing words on the keyboard, simply = sensation (feeling)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (smelling)

Thought about the sushi that I am waiting to be delivered, simply = thought (thinking)

Seeing sushi, simply = colour (seeing)
Eating sushi, simply = sensation (feeling)
Eating sushi, simply = taste (tasting)

Best,
Nelson

[poppyseed]

Hi Nelson

I just want you to know that I am really glad to have you as a guide. I was getting crazy wrestling with this subject alone. Thank you so much.

It’s my pleasure! I’ve been there… :)

By the way, sometimes I might sound confrontational in some responses, but that’s not my intention, okay? I only respond this way so you can know what’s going through my mind.

No worries! Most importantly, be honest with yourself and with me

Seeing a glass of water, simply = colour (seeing)
Feeling the cold of the glass, simply = sensation (feeling)
Feeling the cold of the water on the lips, simply = sensation (feeling)

Hearing a car passing by, simply = sound (hearing)

Thank you for doing such wonderful looking! :) It is now to incorporate that looking into your everyday….make it a habit. Please share an example with each reply, so we can keep it going.

How does it feel to see what actually is?

Now that you can look, let’s explore…

There are colors, sensations, sounds, thoughts, and this impression of being the perceiver. There is this belief that, for an experience to happen, there must be an experiencer, and that this experiencer is probably the body.

Let’s first see what “body” is

1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear? Observe the order in which the details appear
2. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes and relax. Pay attention only to the feeling of your body. Just notice the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Keep your eyes closed and look:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation?
Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?
Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Can the 'body' do things?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, walking, lying down, etc) before replying.
Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

It is now to incorporate that looking into your everyday….make it a habit. Please share an example with each reply, so we can keep it going.

Ok, this is really a powerful exercice.

Feeling the ground beneath my feet, simply = sensation (feeling)
Seeing trees through the window, simply = colours (seeing)
Hearing cars passing by, simply = sounds (hearing)

How does it feel to see what actually is?

Sometimes, when looking too close, I can feel my heart racing.

Most of the time my mind is trying to explain it, or to dismiss it, saying “so what?”.

I noticed that recognizing things as colours is the most difficult part. It really feels as if I am looking at objects. Sensations, sounds, tastes and smells are easier.

Let’s first see what “body” is

1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear?

Certainly, b. The coldness seems to appear in space, superimposed by a mental image of the hand and cup.

2. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes and relax. Pay attention only to the feeling of your body. Just notice the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Keep your eyes closed and look:
Can it be known how tall the body is?

No, because there is no reference. There is just this space without borders with sensations appearing in it.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation?

There is no boundary between the body and the chair, just one sensation.

Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?

This one is tricky for me. It feels as “my” body, because it is the body of the experiencer (or the experiencer itself). Although, with eyes closed, it is hard to find a body/experiencer. There is just experience. I will spend more time with this one.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

No inside or outside, just this borderless space with sensations appearing in it.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body? Can the 'body' do things?

I will need more time with these last two, okay? These are tricky ones. I will answer them tomorrow.

Best,
Nelson

[poppyseed]

Hi Nelson

Good looking!

Feeling the ground beneath my feet, simply = sensation (feeling)
Seeing trees through the window, simply = colours (seeing)
Hearing cars passing by, simply = sounds (hearing)

I’m glad you enjoy! Keep them coming…

I noticed that recognizing things as colours is the most difficult part. It really feels as if I am looking at objects. Sensations, sounds, tastes and smells are easier.

We can come back to this later for a bit more in depth

There is just this space without borders with sensations appearing in it.

No inside or outside, just this borderless space with sensations appearing in it.

Look deeper! Are there a space and sensations? Is there space and what is it made of? Are there solid sensations with clearly defined borders or just feeling (verb) – sensations constantly in flux, changing and morphing from one moment to the next? “Sensations” are composite of sensory experience, mental imagery, and labels generated by thought. If you pay close attention to bodily sensations, can you notice that they are ever-changing and lack a solid, permanent core (without the labels)? Are there solid sensations or the solidity in sensations is a mental construct?
Look at feeling of spaciousness - could it be that it is created also of sensations, creating an illusion of a solid and continuous experience appearing in space? When the concepts of “inside” and “outside” are seen as false they are quickly replaced with the term “spaciousness” or “space” (the opposite) but is there such a thing? In essence, is the feeling of spaciousness a physical dimension or rather a shift in perspective (still a concept)? What is there?

This one is tricky for me. It feels as “my” body, because it is the body of the experiencer (or the experiencer itself). Although, with eyes closed, it is hard to find a body/experiencer. There is just experience. I will spend more time with this one.

Where does the ‘experiencer’ seem to be? What does the experiencer look like? Is it male or female, or neither? Does it speak? Can it be touched? Is there a sensory experience that you can show to others to prove that there is an experiencer? How is it known that he/she exists?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body? Can the 'body' do things?

I will need more time with these last two, okay? These are tricky ones. I will answer them tomorrow.

The actual experience of the body is thought. Thought points to sensation and labels it a ‘body’, but can a body be found as actual experience or only thoughts about a body?

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
1. First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

2. Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

3. While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

4. Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

5. Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

6. Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

7. Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts). Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

8. Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

9. Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

It appears that my reply is quite a long one :), so I wouldn't mind if you split your answer in two. I will answer when you answer everything...
Love
Rali

[Sunyata1]

Hi Rali,

It appears that my reply is quite a long one :), so I wouldn't mind if you split your answer in two. I will answer when you answer everything…

Ok, thank you :)

Are there a space and sensations? Is there space and what is it made of? Are there solid sensations with clearly defined borders or just feeling (verb) – sensations constantly in flux, changing and morphing from one moment to the next?

Good question. There is knowing, and what is known is changing constantly, including sensations. In fact, it not possible to separate what is known from knowing. The knowing is more like a property of what is known.

If you pay close attention to bodily sensations, can you notice that they are ever-changing and lack a solid, permanent core (without the labels)? Are there solid sensations or the solidity in sensations is a mental construct?

Yes, they are not solidy. The solidity in sensations is a mental construct.

When the concepts of “inside” and “outside” are seen as false they are quickly replaced with the term “spaciousness” or “space” (the opposite) but is there such a thing? In essence, is the feeling of spaciousness a physical dimension or rather a shift in perspective (still a concept)? What is there?

I don't know if, in reality, there is space, like a physical dimension. But in direct experience, there is just the knowing of sensory data and mental constructions, creating this sense of space - a very convincing sense of space.

I will meditate on this a little, and I will continue answering your questions tomorrow.

See you soon.

Best,
Nelson