Guide request

[JakeP1989]

Hey man. I came to the place again last night where the energy takes over my vision. It was more clear this time that this is all there is. The fear in the body came up and I guess I subtly “backed off” or whatever but I’m gonna keep going there. I was reading a book today, zen teachings of huang po and it sounds like this is the void he speaks of. Not that it matters but it’s kinda refreshing all these things don’t sound like gibberish to me anymore. I just laid down for bed so gonna look again now. I’m trying to do nothing… as paradoxical as that sounds

[JakeP1989]

I do have a question now that I think about it… I think the fear is coming up due to beliefs. Is this why people teach emotion work and dissolving subtle beliefs? I see how fear and belief could be coming up here but I’m not sure how I could see through those beliefs without getting past this point of fear either…

[ty0]

I see how fear and belief could be coming up here but I’m not sure how I could see through those beliefs without getting past this point of fear either…

So you're imagining that some belief is coming up and you can't see through it without getting past the fear even though you have no idea what all this is about?

Is this why people teach emotion work and dissolving subtle beliefs?

You dissolve subtle beliefs by questioning and noticing. Emotion work is literally just feeling your emotions without avoiding them.

I think the fear is coming up due to beliefs.

It doesn't really help to frame it like this. You can analyse what's going on all you want now, but even that is just the tendency to ideate so you don't have to feel what's here now. You wanna do emotion work? Your thoughts about energy/light/fear/beliefs and trying to figure all of it out are what's between you and emotion work. Could you let all that go and FEEL what's here now?

Ask yourself what you're afraid of? Where does this fear come from? The fear isn't gonna do shit to you, so why don't you go sit with it until you find out where it's coming from? Why all this thinking to avoid, avoid, avoid? Avoid what? You scared of some monsters under the bed, dude?

[JakeP1989]

lol man I haven’t sat with it because it’s not here now… it only comes up for a second in that specific circumstance. It’s not something I’ve ever felt before that I know of

[JakeP1989]

My problem with emotion work isn’t that I’m afraid to sit with it hahaha…. My problem is onky have maybe one emotion a year and it only lasts a second. Not much to sit with man. If they’re not coming up all I can do is think about them

[ty0]

I don't mean that specifically. I mean what's wrong with what's here (or what's not here) now that you have to think of a way to "solve the problem"?

So you're imagining that some belief is coming up and you can't see through it without getting past the fear even though you have no idea what all this is about?

If they’re not coming up all I can do is think about them

Why do you have to do that?

What's the story you're hanging onto? Can you look into that? I don't believe that you can sit down now and have no thoughts at all and still be unsatisfied with what's here. If the senses feel clouded, you're believing some story about trying or fixing or whatever. Let all that shit go man, you don't need it.

[JakeP1989]

If I sit down and just “be” or whatever the energy stuff happens. If I keep sitting it fills up my body and vision almost like there is no body. The light or energy is all there is. Eventually this terror will come up… I feel like I’ve been doing nothing when that happens but it’s like it snaps me back into feeling like me in my body. Like I’ve totally forgot about the body and me and all there is is this light then an intense fear comes up and the body is there again. I don’t mind feeling it or even the fear being there it’s just something that happens. That’s why I feel like maybe there are some underlying beliefs I’m not seeing or just the remaining belief that I exist as this body. I mean I know there are probably tons of beliefs but like I’m at the point where I’ve seen how it could very well be the case that I do not exist, the world, everything. But if this fear keeps coming up where I’m finally starting to see that then I don’t know how I would get fully rid of the belief that I exist without the fear not coming up… I don’t know if that makes sense.

I don’t think necessarily there is something wrong with what’s here or not here. This is just where it goes when I stop and sit. What’s here without thoughts… this is where it leads

[JakeP1989]

What's the story you're hanging onto? Can you look into that?

Ya it’s weird man like I said about seeing it two ways.. it’s kinda like a coin on one side is my life and body, the other is just this light or energy… and then even on my life side there could be another coin. I see that every belief, every word is a thought. “I” am a thought. Is there a belief that I am this body in this world? Yes and no. On one hand those are all words that mean nothing. Thoughts about other thoughts. In that sense a belief doesn’t even exist. There is an appearance of a body in a world who has the apparent “beliefs” but I don’t even know what that means anymore. And there lies the other side of that coin. I could use the words me and my life to describe the same thing and changes nothing. Thinking about this gets me nowhere. There is no problem solving ability to thought and when that is seemingly attempted the thinking just stops. So what else is there to do… just sit with that’s here, direct experience. Sensations turn into this energy feeling that eventually fill up the body or release all little tense spots. Seeing also turns into this light or energy. Speculating if it is the same energy as sensation would just be thoughts and any answer would just be made up. Sound also turns into this energy as a loud ringing that replaces all other sounds.. if that is even a thing. At some point a feeling of fear comes up and the body and world appear again.

Beliefs are on the other side of the coin. I could tell you I feel like the fear comes up and stops or prevents something. I do believe that… it’s what it feels like. I also know it’s just a thought and belief is just a word so the word belief points to nothing. I cannot find a thing called belief in direct experience. It’s just a circle and it just loops back to the first words I typed here.

[ty0]

What's your reaction when the body and world appear again? I think there's some belief that it would be "better" if the light/energy kept taking over, as if SOMETHING will happen that will end your discontent. As a result, it seems like you're sitting with the orientation of "waiting for that SOMETHING to happen".

The thing is, you don't know anything about what's going to happen. You don't know IF something's going to happen. You don't know why you're getting snapped back. And yet there's some belief about how things "should" go.

Go back and surrender. Surrender doesn't mean "don't fear". Surrender means let things be as they are, because any way you think things "should" be is just fiction. If you get snapped back, you get snapped back. Don't think "Dammit I was almost there. What's stopping me?" Just continue. So be it. How else could things be, other than how they are?

[JakeP1989]

What's your reaction when the body and world appear again? I think there's some belief that it would be "better" if the light/energy kept taking over, as if SOMETHING will happen that will end your discontent. As a result, it seems like you're sitting with the orientation of "waiting for that SOMETHING to happen".

My reaction when the fear comes up and notice the body it just feels like I snapped out of a different world. Like one min all there is is this energy, very little thoughts, just existing in this place or as it. Then the fear comes up and it’s like I remember I’m here meditating or whatever. I don’t feel like I’m doing anything when that happens, trying to just let the fear be there as it is and feel it. But there is a definitely a belief that there is something better after this point. I know that I don’t know, it just seems that way to me. I’m gonna try to let that go. Usually I don’t have time to get all the way to that point it only happens like 2-3 hours in and I never have that much time but I’m gonna try to surrender man. Thanks I needed to hear that

[ty0]

DAMN 2-3 hours is a lot. Eh, you don't even have to try to let the fear be there and feel it. You can feel your foot without trying to let the sensation be there and feel it. Maybe you want or don't want a sensation or fear or whatever, but whatever's here is already here, so 🤷. You also don't need to try to surrender, just... 🤷

[JakeP1989]

Ya maybe try to let it be there isn’t a great explanation… not trying to make it change or go away I guess.

Sorry I haven’t been updating much things are still going… whenever I have a break I don’t find myself wanting to do anything but look into this… the seeing. There’s been more of a sense of peace and non grasping lately. Like this is constantly showing me what it is, doing stuff in my body and vision, I know that’s all a story I haven’t been really concerned about the words of it lately. Little realizations here and there, nothing major. There’s more quiet… not constantly looking for answers or trying to change situations. There is still some of that but slowly fading away it seems. Some thoughts pop up and deconstruct… old beliefs that need to be evaluated. I’m sure there are a ton still overlooked but they are right there in the words to be seen when I need to see them. Kindof entertaining noticing all these thoughts. I’ve been noticing how innocent it is, the "character” the thought process of me. It seems like people talk about the ego as this evil entity but it feels to me like an innocent child you know? The person wants to feel safe, loved. And it’s constantly looking for something solid to feel that way. The personality was like a defense mechanism to fit in with friends, hope to feel loved by people… I’ve kinda been feeling like I’m saying goodbye to an old friend…

[ty0]

Yeah tons of beliefs but no need to grasp. They appear and dissolve on their own. The ego/character the thought processes are built around is totally innocent... but it's not an entity. All the thoughts are built upon the thought that there is an entity, like trying to keep something imaginary safe and loved...

As this is seen through, some people do grieve the loss of what they thought was them. And most spend their entire lives trying to gain things for "themselves" so they can buy into a story about how they are loved/safe/admired or how their lives are purposeful. But this is just like childhood for humans, playing make-believe in the sandbox. Overgrown children everywhere 😂😂. All the complexity of society and the social matrix fall away as you can't choose to believe in all that fiction anymore...

[JakeP1989]

Are sensation and perception thought too?

[ty0]

There's no difference or separation between sensation, perception, and thought. Empty categories, empty division, but useful at times.