See the sought

[tia22]

Can you explore this hopelessness a bit more?

What is it that will happen if there is complete hopelessness?

I love that you caught onto that. Once I posted this morning, I noticed that there is a strong urge to avoid this feeling of hoplessness. A resistance to even acknowledge that there is a potential to feel hopeless. The thoughts equate hopelessness to depression.

Also a majority of the discomfort I feel in daily life seems to be due to a desire for things to be different. I desire to be happy all of the time.

I will feel into hopelessness and aversion to discomfort.

Any other tips are always appreciated! ♥️

[Bluejay]

Wanting to be happy all the time is what we all want. Unfortunately, it's just not possible. And the fact that it's not possible is not a problem :)

Let me know how the exploration goes!

[tia22]

Could you please give me some guidance on how to best look into hopelessness? When I ask what would happen if I lost all hope, the mind first creates massive resistance and tells me hopelessness is basically death. As if hope gives life purpose. Then the mind continues to offer up hopeful anectodes to, like “you wouldn’t feel hopeless all the time.” Or “ if you were hopeless all the time, then eventually hopeless wouldn’t feel that bad.” The thoughts don’t want me to look closer into what being hopeless would actually mean or feel like.

[Bluejay]

That's good. When there's a thought with massive resistance, go into the sensations and feel them fully until they are done.

It's like relaxing into a warm bath (with the sensations). Let the resistance expand to your whole body and do what it wants to do. It may feel dangerous, but it is not, as you will discover.

Also one question: What important problem would seeing through the self illusion solve?

[tia22]

That's good. When there's a thought with massive resistance, go into the sensations and feel them fully until they are done.

I did feel into the resistance and let the story play out. There were lots of stories about what would happen if I did “allow” myself to feel hopeless (though there was no sensation called “hopelessness” present). There was fear about feeling aimless, getting depressed, losing relationships, people not liking me. The sensation of fear would come and quickly dissipate. As the stories continued, the sensation was changing and ?moving. It became difficult to label it as any specific emotion or assign a story to it. It seemed the thoughts and sensations were completely unrelated. And the stories have an intensity that was not reflected in the body AT ALL. It became obvious that 1. All sensations and thoughts come and go- they don’t have any actual meaning or effect on anything around them. And 2. The label placed on and sensation is completely ludicrous. Each sensation seems new and different with varying texture, yet has the same nature as every other sensation. Empty, fleeting, but nothing of substance. The thoughts attempt to give them “meaning”. This realization is in thought, so equally meaningless. Something in me wishes that I could hold onto this realization so suffering doesn’t continue- which tells me this isn’t a realization as much as the mind thinking it has figured something out :(

Also one question: What important problem would seeing through the self illusion solve?

My thoughts think that I won’t care about what others think about me anymore. Or there will not be a me to care what others think about this personality. I can just be unabashedly ‘me’. Wow. I will never have that. This process will demolish all of that.

[Bluejay]

That's great that you noticed that it's the mind thinking it has something figured out.

Keep feeling into the resistance. Notice where it is in the body and sink into it.

You can use the stories and thoughts to bring up feelings, but then remain with the feeling as best you can.

There may be layers. If there's more coming up, just welcome whatever is there.

My thoughts think that I won’t care about what others think about me anymore. Or there will not be a me to care what others think about this personality. I can just be unabashedly ‘me’. Wow. I will never have that. This process will demolish all of that.

Is there a 'me' that cares what others think right now?

Where is it? :)

[tia22]

Wouldn’t it be wild to realize that this is all just a thought.

There is a strong sense that resistance is just a thought. A thought saying “no” or “I don’t like this”. There aren’t any sensations that claim labels or need labels.

Resistance doesn’t actually exist. Just like looking doesn’t exist. Just like resting as awareness doesn’t exist. The mind creates illusions. And it does this all day long. But how does an illusion create an illusion? And how does it feel like it is running this whole show?

Even self-inquiry seems like “ego” indulgence. This mind-made seeker will never be satisfied. It is born out of dissatisfaction.

What if there was never anything to be found or to be seen?

[Bluejay]

Tia, I would like you to try something 🙂

Take what you last wrote, and put an E or T after every statement.

E = experience
T = thought

For example, if I just quickly make up something, it would look like this:

I have been wondering about how to see through the self -- T
There are sensations in the chest -- E

So take your previous post and see if you can do this with each sentence. Then share what you find!

[tia22]

Wouldn’t it be wild to realize that this is all just a thought.

T

There is a strong sense that resistance is just a thought.

T

A thought saying “no” or “I don’t like this”.

T

There aren’t any sensations that claim labels or need labels.

T

Resistance doesn’t actually exist. Just like looking doesn’t exist.

T

Just like resting as awareness doesn’t exist. The mind creates illusions.

T

And it does this all day long. But how does an illusion create an illusion?

T

And how does it feel like it is running this whole show?

T

Even self-inquiry seems like “ego” indulgence.

T

This mind-made seeker will never be satisfied.

T

It is born out of dissatisfaction.

T

What if there was never anything to be found or to be seen?

T


I see. There is a sensations here that thoughts are labeling as embarrassment and disappointment. A pit in the stomach. It dissipated quickly. I will do my best to focus on experience. I’m sorry. This is quite a roller coaster. It can be hard to tell when I am on or off the roller coaster of the mind sometimes.
These are all thoughts. Let’s proceed in DE

[tia22]

Is there a 'me' that cares what others think right now?

Right now, there is a cramping in lower belly. The legs are shifting. Fingers are typing. Eyes seeing a phone.
There is not a ‘me’ that cares what’s others think right now.

Where is it? :)

I am not aware of it in my experience right now.

[Bluejay]

Nicely done!

And don't worry, I am here to help you stay focused on the self-illusion. 🎯

Is there a feeling that you are aware of not finding a 'me'?

Where is the feeling of 'me' strongest right now in your life?

[tia22]

And don't worry, I am here to help you stay focused on the self-illusion. 🎯

I feel so much gratitude for you and your tireless redirecting :)

Is there a feeling that you are aware of not finding a 'me'?

Staying in direct experience (not in thought), there is awareness of not finding a ‘me’. The awareness of that doesn’t feel personal.

Where is the feeling of 'me' strongest right now in your life?

I think you’re referring to which situations I feel ‘me’ sense strongest. When there are high levels of tiredness and or stress, it seems to become more prominent. So, mostly at work. The mind filters become more opaque at work. The ‘me’ truly does pop up most when continuous thought is perceived necessary. Also when I am around people that I don’t know well, and don’t really care to get to know (also usually at work). Looking at it right now, from the comfort of home, it seems that thought and persona are a protective mechanism. Creates a sense of stability, and safety when in uncomfortable situations. A place to retreat.

[Bluejay]

You are right on, Tia. The self is a defensive mechanism.

The ‘me’ truly does pop up most when continuous thought is perceived necessary. Also when I am around people that I don’t know well, and don’t really care to get to know (also usually at work).

Can you say more about this?

What is it about continuous thought that makes it feel like a 'me'?

And also being around people you don't know well, what is it there?

Then look for the 'me' in the above. Try to stay at the level of the feeling/illusion.

[tia22]

What is it about continuous thought that makes it feel like a 'me'?

Gosh, this is a really good question. Something that I have never examined before. I’ve been feeling into this all day today. I’m still not sure, but maybe it feels that way because the attention seems to be focused on what is going on in the mind for a majority of waking hours. Focused so much so that thought seems to become the most consistent primary experience of this “perceiver”, or ‘me’….. maybe. Or perhaps it is a single thought “the me does truly pop up most when continuous thought is perceived necessary”. Maybe without that thought the me has no substance at all.

And also being around people you don't know well, what is it there?

Maybe a little bit of the above answer and also the sense of separation from other people. There is a ‘me’ here that is somehow in opposition to ‘you’ there. A need to solidify this separation by fearing, judging, disagreeing, finding agreement, forming relationship, possibility of the ability for ‘other’ to reject or abandon me.

Then look for the 'me' in the above. Try to stay at the level of the feeling/illusion

.
I spent a majority of the day today looking into what was going on in experience to be able to answer first two questions. Will look for the ‘me’ while remaining in illusion/thought tonight and tomorrow.

[Bluejay]

Nice exploration, Tia!

Maybe you could test this. Try to replicate continuous thought while you sit now.

As your attention focuses on what is going on in the mind, do you feel a sense of self or me?

Is the sense of me the me that is in charge of your life?

And as you explore the sense of self, you could try this if it helps:

1. Notice the sense of self or me
2. Where is it?
3. What does it feel like it is doing? (example: thinking thoughts)
4. How exactly is it doing that?
5. Repeat #3 and #4 and keep looking