See the sought

[tia22]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? LU is focused on guiding apparent people see that they are not the thoughts, perceptions, opinions which create the sense of an individual person. Life does not need to be endless mind-created suffering.

What are you looking for at LU? Guidance to come out of the mirage created by the mind. Direct pointings back to the Self. I frequently get lost in the mind despite “understanding” that I am not the thinker and that thoughts have no truth to them. I recently saw that my journey thus far has been very mind focused. I’m frustrated, but ready to be directed where I need to go.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Pointing to help me keep on track and see in what areas I am keeping myself stuck. I hope to find a space of trust, honesty and vulnerability. I want more than anything to see what is true and what is real in my experience.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I’ve been seeking for the last year or so. I watch lots of videos by Angelo Dilullo, also read his book. I do self inquiry on a relatively consistent basis (whenever I think of it). I do not have a formal meditation practice, but do find myself doing natural meditation and inquiry whenever desire/opportunity arises (multiple times throughout the day).

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Bluejay]

Hi,

I'm Henri. What would you like me to call you?

I'd be happy to be your guide if you'd like?

If yes, then we can start...

If you haven't already, please read the disclaimer here: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/reg ... isclaimer/

And then have a look at what Liberation Unleashed is not in the FAQ: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some guidelines (you may already be familiar with most of this, but just in case):

1. Post at least once every 24 to 48 hours. I'm not strict about this, but I would prefer it if you posted regularly. If you can't, please let me know.

2. Technology can be problematic. I recommend you type your answers in a text editor like MS Word or Google Docs, and then copy and paste them into this thread. This way you avoid losing your answer if there's a technical glitch.

3. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to answer each question individually. Here are instructions on how to use the quote function if it is not already clear: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

And to start, I'd like to know your expectations. You don't have to use direct experience for this. Just share what comes to mind:

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?
2. How will you change?
3. What do you want or expect to be different?
4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

Enjoy! :)

[tia22]

Hi there, Henri!!

You may call me Tia :)

Thank you so much for your willingness to share your time with me. I am so thankful for you and the other guides volunteering your precious time to help others see our true nature. Awakening is priority for this person :)

I will do my absolute best to post once every 24 hours, but it may be up to 48 hours between posts. This is due to working full time and having two young children, And I would like to be thoughtful in my posts and responses. I live and breathe this desire to awaken, so please don’t see my interaction here to reflect the amount of internal work. Would you still be okay with working together?

I am currently at work. I will respond to the first questions at lunch or once I get home at the end of the day!!

Thank you again :)

[Bluejay]

Hello Tia!

I will do my absolute best to post once every 24 hours, but it may be up to 48 hours between posts. This is due to working full time and having two young children, And I would like to be thoughtful in my posts and responses. I live and breathe this desire to awaken, so please don’t see my interaction here to reflect the amount of internal work. Would you still be okay with working together?

Of course, that is perfectly fine. Whatever works for you :)

I can also give you things to do during the day, because eventually we want to bring this into our everyday life.

So to get started... How familiar are you with direct experience?

There's a big difference between knowing (going to the mind for answers), and seeing (looking in direct experience).

For example: If I ask you what color your socks are, you can answer in two ways:

1. You can think of the answer and try to remember

2. You can take a look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be crucial that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in this very moment.

Direct Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[tia22]

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?

This mind can not know what that will be like, but it can imagine. The imagination hopes that life will be more simplistic. There will be more moments of peace, less second guessing and a stronger ability to be present with direct experience. Hopefully less judgement of myself and others.

2. How will you change?

That is an interesting question. How will “I” change? The I will be free to be itself without internal judgement and need to modify itself to be “better” or “more liked”. This sounds like freedom.

3. What do you want or expect to be different?

I want to be free from the incessant mind identification and the filters that apparently keep me separate from life and other people.

4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

Freedom from “caring” about what the mind has to say. The thoughts can just be thoughts- I won’t hang on every word as if they mean something true about “me” or “my” experience.

[Bluejay]

I want to be free from the incessant mind identification and the filters that apparently keep me separate from life and other people.
Freedom from “caring” about what the mind has to say. The thoughts can just be thoughts- I won’t hang on every word as if they mean something true about “me” or “my” experience.

Here it's good to note that what often follows first awakening is emotional/shadow work.

The identification with thoughts is, from what I've seen, a distraction mechanism to avoid feeling deep sadness, hurt, anger, and so on. Trauma basically.

This work will be easier once the separate self has been seen through, but sometimes if there is no shift, the emotional work tends to be the next step.

Let me know if you're clear about the direct experience pointer I posted in the last post and I'll give you a few pointers :)

[tia22]

I want to bring these practices into my everyday life immediately. Thank you for sending things I can start practicing.

So to get started... How familiar are you with direct experience?

I try to pay attention to direct experience throughout the day. It is just brief moments that I seem to be able to focus on what is happening directly before the mind chimes in. Often the mind chimes in and the attention seems to gravitate towards thought without me even noticing for another few minutes. It’s a very curious mechanism.

There's a big difference between knowing (going to the mind for answers), and seeing (looking in direct experience)

I will start with these examinations today!

[Bluejay]

Often the mind chimes in and the attention seems to gravitate towards thought without me even noticing for another few minutes. It’s a very curious mechanism.

Yes, this is to be expected. You might start to become curious what you're feeling in the body when you notice you're lost in thought. Just bring attention to the body.

Okay, so I'll give you two pointers. One requires around 20 minutes, and the other one you can do during the day.

Feel free to take your time. No hurry. Just explore thoroughly and with curiosity.

#1 - During the day

I'd like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list exactly like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order on each line.

Also pay attention to how the mind wants to label, judge, interpret, and constantly make sense of things.

#2 - 20 minutes

Let's now explore how the mind labels experience. This takes about 20 minutes and you will need pen and paper.

This exercise is broken into 2 x 10 minute parts. For each 10 minute part pay attention to any bodily sensation (is there any tightening, or any relaxing?)

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

- I am sitting on a chair
- I am hearing a clock ticking
- I am looking at a computer screen
- I am feeling hungry

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the second ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”.

Describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

- Sitting on a chair
- Typing
- Breathing
- Blinking
- Hearing the clock
- Hunger

(Watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Enjoy! :)

[tia22]

Here it's good to note that what often follows first awakening is emotional/shadow work.

The identification with thoughts is, from what I've seen, a distraction mechanism to avoid feeling deep sadness, hurt, anger, and so on. Trauma basically.

This work will be easier once the separate self has been seen through, but sometimes if there is no shift, the emotional work tends to be the next step

Ah yes, I only spoke of the more “positive” expectations, however I do fully expect to experience quite a lot of shadow work. In fact, I feel that the body has probably been urging me to do this my entire life, but my conditioning was to push it down or distract. You had mentioned on a previous post that you have seen that mind activity is really just a distraction from the emotion work- I resonate with this 100%
I would say the emotion work has been much more intense the last 3-4 months, but maybe it appears that way because this is the first time in my life that I am acknowledging my emotions and trying to feel them, rather than running away from it. I can’t even imagine how intense it will feel after awakening, when I have direct contact with these emotions and can not hide from them!!
Ultimately, I am not afraid of what is hidden in this body and needs to be expressed. There is a deep knowing that it is all ok and there is nothing to be afraid of/ nothing I can’t handle. However, this “person” and conditioning seem hellbent on avoiding all of that. It seems to take effort and intense focus to remember that thoughts are just there to distract and to go into the body. Attention has been habituated to go towards thoughts. I imagine this will get easier, but this is my biggest struggle!!

[Bluejay]

I can’t even imagine how intense it will feel after awakening, when I have direct contact with these emotions and can not hide from them!!

Actually, I found it much easier, because it's no longer so personal.

Ultimately, I am not afraid of what is hidden in this body and needs to be expressed. There is a deep knowing that it is all ok and there is nothing to be afraid of/ nothing I can’t handle. However, this “person” and conditioning seem hellbent on avoiding all of that.

Happy to hear this. It's a big deal to even have this mindset. So many get stuck in various stages because of the avoidance of feeling.

It seems to take effort and intense focus to remember that thoughts are just there to distract and to go into the body. Attention has been habituated to go towards thoughts. I imagine this will get easier, but this is my biggest struggle!!

It gets easier. Human beings seem to have a tendency to avoid feelings, so this is quite normal. At one point in our lives, distracting into thought was a blessing, such as when we were overwhelmed when younger.

[tia22]

#1 - During the day

I'd like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought

.

Seeing my computer screen, simply= color/image
Hearing coworkers talking in next room, simply= sound
Smelling coworkers coffee, simply= smell
Tasting strawberry yogurt, simply= taste
Feeling nervous tension in solar plexus, simply= sensation
Thinking about case at work, simply= thought

Seeing my hands on the steering wheel, simply=color/image
Hearing hum of car engine, simply= sound
Smelling car air freshener, simply= smell
Chewing spearmint gum, simply= taste
Feeling coolness of steering wheel, simply=sensation
Thinking “I’m tired”, simply= thought

[tia22]

I did notice the mind continuously wanting to label everything. The labeling almost felt pre-cognitive in a way. As if the label arises with the object, rather than them being experienced separately, or the label being an overlay of the object. It’s astonishing to see how judging and labeling seem to accompany every experience! Oh the curiosity and fascination of everyday things if this mind were to let go of “knowing” everything.

[Bluejay]

Good stuff on pointer #1!

Looking forward to #2.

I did notice the mind continuously wanting to label everything. The labeling almost felt pre-cognitive in a way. As if the label arises with the object, rather than them being experienced separately, or the label being an overlay of the object. It’s astonishing to see how judging and labeling seem to accompany every experience! Oh the curiosity and fascination of everyday things if this mind were to let go of “knowing” everything.

Nice observations. Yes, this is how the mind creates something out of nothing :)

There are only colors. Color = seeing, but no seer. There is no cup. That's a label. There's ceramic and other elements, but no 'cupness' in the cup. That is why it is said to be empty of self nature. There are only parts coming together.

Same with a school. There are buildings, cars, students, books, and pens, but there is no school.

[tia22]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

1. The second column (labeling experience without the “I am”) felt inherently true and natural!

2. Simply sensations

3. Labels don’t affect the external experience per se, but they do seem to affect the internal experience. Labels are simply a description, but then the mind uses those descriptions to create a much more complicated internal experience.

4.yes!!!
Column 1 (“I am”) felt more tense. More sense of ownership, responsibility, judgement and expectation. These are labels of the sensations, but it just felt more like effort than the second.
Column 2 (“just is”) this was light and felt natural without anticipation.

I was pretty surprised by the sensational difference that happens when subjective experience occurs. When “I” am the experiencer, every sense feels laden with judgement and expectation. Very eye opening experiment!

[Bluejay]

Splendid!

I was pretty surprised by the sensational difference that happens when subjective experience occurs. When “I” am the experiencer, every sense feels laden with judgement and expectation. Very eye opening experiment!

Yes :)

Here's the next pointer.

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts about something, because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought about ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk about can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

- Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
- Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Enjoy and let me know what you find out :)