Kernels

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert

What exactly is focus – wide or narrow?

You didn't highlight it as a quote. So I wasn't sure whether to answer or not.

Well, if you see a “?” even if it’s not in blue you look and you answer :)

Honestly, it's hard to articulate. It feels like something layered on top of an awareness that is already there. I used to say there are two types of focus --wide and narrow. But on close inspection I think there's just awareness and the narrow or wide focus is just a type of labeling. Maybe I wasn't supposed to start the inquiry here, though.

OK… Now LOOK! So what is awareness then? There is still a desire to identify as a something. If it’s not an illusory separate self then I must be something called Awareness that is seeing, thinking, doing, feeling etc. What behaviours and qualities does this awareness have exactly?
Is awareness a container for experiences? Some kind of lone witness? Please provide a description - smell, taste, colour, sound, or sensation.

How is awareness (being aware of colours, sounds, smells, tastes and/or sensations) different from seeing (colours), hearing (sounds), smelling (smells), tasting (tastes), and/or feeling (sensations)?
In experience now, listen to sound; is there anything there besides what is heard? Is awareness/being aware ever actually experienced or is it just an idea, an abstraction? Is there independently/inherently existing awareness/aware-ing?

Let's explore seeing again...Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.
1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is seeing/witnessing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me'/Robert/ awareness, any other entity be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER in any form or shape be found?
Would anything that is suggested as the see-er/awareness/witness, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Now, look at whatever is in front of you. Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back (the other direction) in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is seeing separate from what’s seen? Is there an awareness doing the seeing like in language where you have a subject action and an object? How is exactly awareness doing the focusing on “objects” – be it “apples” or “colours” or “seeing”?
Are even seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, and thinking, separate things without the labels, or just experiencing?
Is there any awareness separate from experiencing or is there just experiencing? If there isn't any entity doing the seeing, hearing,...is there focusing at all or just lablelling - "cutting out" "things" out of the whole/ THIS?

In Buddhism the term “suchness” or “thusness” (whatever is happening) is used, referring to the nature of reality free from conceptual elaborations and the subject–object distinction. I like the word “THIS” as it is more like a pointing word – pointing to whatever is directly experienced like an arrow with no extra meaning – rather than labelling the experience.
Take your time with this, as usual
Look into that repeatedly, several times.
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert
I hope all is good!
Are we still doing this inquiry? We agreed on a daily conversation and that you will let me know if a problem arises...

Looking forward to hearing from you!
Love
Rali

[robebor]

Hi Rali,
Yes we agreed on a daily conversation. We moved a friend over the weekend. Also, my partner returned from his trip and is using our only labtop. I will adapt around his use of it and respond tonight. Unfortunately the website doesn't work well on my iphone.
Thanks.
Robert

[poppyseed]

Thanks for letting me know Robert! Just keep on doing your DE looking (daily activities) in the meantime :)

Love
Rali

[robebor]

Hi Rali,
You said at the end as usual take your time with this. I may have taken you literally.

So what is awareness then?

To recap, we began this line of inquiry with focus. I answered it feels layered on (or less direct experientially) than awareness. Now having looked at awareness for a couple days, it’s too close to be found, it’s not separate from whatever is happening, and the fact of its inseparability from seeing, hearing, tasting, etc. is undeniable.

What behaviours and qualities does this awareness have exactly?

It has the behavior of being infinitely available to whatever is happening. I can only detect one quality, that of being available, always ready as this, without center or boundaries.

Is awareness a container for experiences?

I don’t see any limit to call it a container.

Some kind of lone witness?

There’s no loneness here. It’s not apart. When I look, it’s looking and every where apart from looking. When I touch, it’s touching and not apart from touching. I can’t say in direct experience it has a beginning, middle or end, center, edge, so no there’s no lone witness.

How is awareness (being aware of colours, sounds, smells, tastes and/or sensations) different from seeing (colours), hearing (sounds), smelling (smells), tasting (tastes), and/or feeling (sensations)?

It’s different in that a sound is not a sound to itself. It’s only a sound to the hearing and the hearing and the sound are not different. So being aware of sound is not different from hearing (sound).

In experience now, listen to sound; is there anything there besides what is heard?

I hear gaps between the sounds and the thought « there’s no sound » is a mentally voiced sound. I can also confirm that without regard to memory, or thought, in the actual experience of hearing there’s only the heard.Does that mean there are no non-sounds or non-heards? No I don’t think so. Non-sounds and non-heards are thoughts (thinking).

Is awareness/being aware ever actually experienced or is it just an idea, an abstraction?

Now on present evidence it’s what is actual, actually experienced, and it’s an idea, an abstraction, made up.

Is there independently/inherently existing awareness/aware-ing?

No.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes.

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No.

3) Can what is seeing/witnessing the blackness be found?

No.

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me'/Robert/ awareness, any other entity be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

No witness, just blackness is found.

What do you find?

Blackness

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER in any form or shape be found?

No.

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er/awareness/witness, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No it can only be found in thought (thinking).

Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view?

No it’s not seen from a perspective of two windows or one window or windscreen.

Is seeing separate from what’s seen?

No.

Is there an awareness doing the seeing like in language where you have a subject action and an object?

No.

How is exactly awareness doing the focusing on “objects” – be it “apples” or “colours” or “seeing”?

I don’t actually experience awareness as separate so I also don’t experience it as doing anything.

Are even seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, and thinking, separate things without the labels, or just experiencing?

I experience seeing as seeing and hearing as hearing. Do they are separate. In other words I don’t experience seeing as hearing. I also experience seeing as just experiencing and hearing as just experiencing. I can see there’s just experiencing and seeing and hearing are interpreting the experiencing.

Is

there any awareness separate from experiencing or is there just experiencing?

No there’s no awareness separate from experiencing and it’s just experiencing.

If there isn't any entity doing the seeing, hearing,...is there focusing at all or just lablelling - "cutting out" "things" out of the whole/ THIS?

I can see now clearly that focusing is just thinking the thought « this can be cut out » and the belief that it’s done after it’s done. Something like this and this and this, but when you look closely it’s just this.

Thanks again for your patience in my slow considered responses. I very much enjoy.

Love
Robert

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert

You said at the end as usual take your time with this. I may have taken you literally.

When I say that, I mean spend more time with it, not just answer as you read it, but see it throughout the day. I don’t mean take a week or so :)). Believe me, the intensity of this inquiry is entirely for your benefit, I’m just volunteering here to take you through it ;). Looking doesn’t take time – you look and you see – it’s either here or not. It’s just a matter of reinforcing the observations by repetition. Thinking your replies, on the other hand, may take some time to evaluate all previous information - knowledge, teachings, experience, etc. So this is why we don’t encourage answering slowly ("slow considered responses"). We want answers from looking, not from thinking. I apologise if I didn’t make this clearer

I can see how your answers progressed through the questions, so looking did its job :)

I experience seeing as seeing and hearing as hearing. Do they are separate. In other words I don’t experience seeing as hearing. I also experience seeing as just experiencing and hearing as just experiencing. I can see there’s just experiencing and seeing and hearing are interpreting the experiencing.

We’ll look at this a bit more later. Let’s cover the basics first…

For the next exercise I want you to sit somewhere quiet and observe thoughts.
A thought appears.
In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?
Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead? Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?
Where do thoughts appear from? Where are they coming from and going to? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Watch like a hawk.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance?
Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Are thoughts 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
Love
Rali

[robebor]

Hi Rali,

I'm super grateful of your volunteering to do this for me! I hope you're well!

In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?

No thoughts appear like energy bursts out of no where and disappear just as quickly. They are part of the experience, not separate. No one or no thing recognizes it. There's no one there being aware of it.

Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?

I can sense sensations or more accurately changing pressures but it's not separate from the thought nor is it doing the thinking.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

I can read this question. That's a thought. It's just reflecting the seeing and at some level the hearing. There was a brief intention to read the question, experienced as a pressure. It didn't feel like anything I did. Everything feels set in motion. I can see a labelling happening after the fact.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No it felt very much given in the moment.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Not in the moment, no. There's no selecting from a range of thoughts. The thoughts are reflecting and selecting. I can react to a prior thought by creating its opposite, but there's an emotional rejection of one thought and a layering on of a more pleasant thought. So there's no freedom in selecting a range of thoughts (positive or negative).

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

I can relax and feel energized. More positive thoughts flowed for a few moments, but didn't last. A thought about being hungry arose on its own. So I can't choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

It feels like I can relax and let go into soft breathing sensations and there's a temporary suspension of thinking. I can pick up a pleasant thought like gratitude that is in line with the pleasant sensations. However, I can't choose it. It's arising based on recent memory, prior conditioning.

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?

Yes, I can see there's a reaction that wants to change the flow of thoughts. It doesn't feel like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay. It feels more like a grandma that gives more attention to pleasantly behaved children but everyone is welcome.

Where do thoughts appear from?

They appear out of no where. I sit here listening to my partner packing our picnic for the holiday today. They arise as and just after sounds arise. They disappear as and slightly after sounds disappear.

Where are they coming from and going to?

They are coming from sensations and as a add-on pressure on the sensation. They "go to" and are directed at the sensation.

Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Watch like a hawk.

They appear randomly following whatever sensations are arising.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance?

Creaking sound. Sounds tickle ripple inside my heart. What is that? Realizing seeing door opening. Relaxing seeing and hearing. Am I doing this right?

Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?

No.
I

s it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.

Yes, it feels like a suspension can happen. It lasts as long as I can hold my breath.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

It looks like there's an organized sequence where a thought about a thought gets layered on a prior one. I can see the labeling happening that a thought arises after another and claims it as a prior thought, but it's already a different thought.

Are thoughts 100% true?

I guess no thought is wrong since it's just happening. But the reverse isn't true that all thoughts are 100% true. Thoughts don't reflect reality, other than the thought reality.
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
There's still experiencing and curiosity. Everything is open, no borders, no center.

Love,
Robert

Do they appear randomly or in a structured way?

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert

I'm super grateful of your volunteering to do this for me! I hope you're well!

It’s my pleasure :)

I can read this question. That's a thought. It's just reflecting the seeing and at some level the hearing. There was a brief intention to read the question, experienced as a pressure. It didn't feel like anything I did. Everything feels set in motion. I can see a labelling happening after the fact.

They are coming from sensations and as a add-on pressure on the sensation. They "go to" and are directed at the sensation.

What is “intention” and how is it really experienced in DE? You say it’s experienced as “pressure” so basically sensation (feeling), but does the sensation labelled “pressure” know anything about thinking? Can it read thoughts? Can it understand them? Can a sensation think thoughts? Can a sensation contain a thought? Is anything responsible for thought or they simply ARE?

Not in the moment, no. There's no selecting from a range of thoughts. The thoughts are reflecting and selecting. I can react to a prior thought by creating its opposite, but there's an emotional rejection of one thought and a layering on of a more pleasant thought. So there's no freedom in selecting a range of thoughts (positive or negative).

How exactly are you choosing/creating the opposite thought? Do you go to a special “storage place” and choose the thought there from a range of thoughts? How do you create it? What building parts are you using for that – mini thoughts? How is it known that the thought is opposite without looking at its content? Does it have an “opposite shape”? OR ALL thoughts appear on their own and another thought (a thought about a thought) says that the first one is opposite to the second one, labelling one as “positive” and another as negative?

Love
Rali

[robebor]

Hi Rali,
Thanks so much for the reply questions!

What is “intention” and how is it really experienced in DE?

It’s a label, nothing more than a pressure (sensation), existing alongside a label (« this pressure is intention »). I settled on that since the pressure exists in the body before the label arises and exists after. The two are disconnected. The two have nothing to do with one another, except yes that they are.

but does the sensation labelled “pressure” know anything about thinking?

Of course not.

Can it read thoughts?

Ha no!

Can it understand them?

No.

Can a sensation think thoughts?

No.

Can a sensation contain a thought?

No.

Is anything responsible for thought or they simply ARE?

No nothing is responsible. They co-exist. They are.

How exactly are you choosing/creating the opposite thought?

there’s no « you » choosing/creating the opposite thought. To summarize, wait for a thought to arise. In DE, you can’t say there’s a thinker there. There’s just thinking and sensing. The two clearly exist. An « opposite » thought may arise because you like to contemplate alternatives. If you look closely, the second thought is just another misappropriated label. There’s nothing special about « opposite ». There’s no « prior » thinking. There’s only this thinking. That’s why I concluded

So there's no freedom in selecting a range of thoughts (positive or negative).

.

Do you go to a special “storage place” and choose the thought there from a range of thoughts?

Memory is definitely not a storage place! Ha! As I wrote twice below, there’s no range.

How do you create it?

« You » don’t.

What building parts are you using for that – mini thoughts?

It arises with a fictitious label (« this « prior » thought is a building part »).

How is it known that the thought is opposite without looking at its content?

I don’t fully understand this question. Let me paraphrase. You’re asking whether in DE it can be known that a thought can be known as « opposite » while looking at its content. I would answer it’s clearly just a label masquerading as « prior » content.

Does it have an “opposite shape”?

No.

OR ALL thoughts appear on their own and another thought (a thought about a thought) says that the first one is opposite to the second one, labelling one as “positive” and another as negative?

You got it! You also clarified my initial DE of what I experienced before and sloppily transcribed.

I’m so incredibly grateful to you today!!
Love,
Robert

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert

I’m so incredibly grateful to you today!!

My pleasure as always :)

Very good looking! I hope you are also doing the daily breakdown of daily activities, as you stopped giving me an example ;)

Let’s move to sensations and body…

1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear?
Observe the order in which the details appear
2. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes and relax. Pay attention only to the feeling of your body. Just notice the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Keep your eyes closed and look:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation?
Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?
Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Can the 'body' do things?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, walking, lying down, etc) before replying.
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hey
I missed something that I wanted to ask...

Memory is definitely not a storage place! Ha! As I wrote twice below, there’s no range.

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought. So let's have a look at that... Let a memory be there, and look at it.
What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
Love
Rali

[robebor]

Hi Rali,

Thank you. I’ll put a daily exercise at the end.

1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear?
Observe the order in which the details appear

B. Coldness - sensation. No image of a hand arose, strangely. So the coldness was everywhere. Contact appeared first. Tingling, second. Contracting, third. Labeled, pleasant, next. Sensing in an open space with no borders. Hardness of contact with object, next. Then broke away from DE, thinking (trying to remember order).

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No it can’t be known. Height doesn’t apply. Edge and boundary don’t apply. There’s no second sensation to compare a first one to. So all measurements are useless.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

There’s no body, just sensation. So no weight or volume either.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

In searching for a shape or form, an image of a body appeared. But I distinctly felt sensations outside of the image. There was no edge. Amorphous.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation?

When I said to myself now look for the boundary between the body and the chair, I noticed warmth at my bum. But then focusing on warm sensations, the image of a chair disappeared. Then the body image disappeared. It felt like just sensations without the label warm.

Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?

The image of a body comes and goes. An image just arrives. It’s not the body. So the image is not mine. Warmth at contact can’t be mine. There’s no warmer or knower of warmth. There’s no investigator of attributes of ownership. The label mine is not mine, since it comes and goes. It’s just whatever is arising, image of body, sensing, thinking.

Is there an inside or an outside?

I can see there’s no outside. There’s no outside or inside sensation. The image of a body arises and there’s labeling locating onto that image. It feels like guessing. It’s funny! But bizarrely there’s a sense of «resting in a center » which is stubborn. How can there be a center when it’s so clear there’s no boundary for inside or outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

it feels more like a center experiencing itself in openness. Only there’s no openness when I look for it. There’s only this. Each this feels like a center.

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

There is clearly no outside. I can’t find an outside going outward.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

It refers to a sound (simply = hearing).
It then refers to an image (simply = seeing).
It refers to sensation (simply = sensing).

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The arising of seeing sensing labeling and thinking. There’s no actual connection between them. There’s no background on which they fall or come from. They are there when they are there, not there when they are not there.

Can the 'body' do things?

Ha no it clearly can’t!

What is memory exactly?

Looking for a memory, I noticed my eyes glanced left. An image appeared. Sensation of pleasant appeared. The image disappeared and no story of the initial image started up. Where in that order of experience is memory?

What is the memory ‘made of’?

The sensation of looking and identifying, images and sensations that appear to arise from images, the fading of images and sensations, the labeling of memories as fleeting.

WHEN does the memory appear?

There’s no exact WHEN.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

There’s a label of an image of a young boy Robert. There’s no age of an image. ;) It’s just a small face image that appears as « mine ». But « mine » is a label. My face was never as tiny as the flat uninteresting image arising here. It has nothing to do with the boy « back then ». Since « mine » is uninteresting like any other label, the image is uninteresting. So it’s no different than any other labeling in general thinking.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

There’s only a present image and a vague « story » that I existed « back then ». It refers to an image labeled as « past » and an image labeled as « now ». So nothing has happened. Both arise at the same time. Both never existed at the same time. Yet both ARE! Ha!

Cleaning office exercise
Standing and reaching, simply = sensations (sensing).
Lifting and moving objects, simply = images (seeing); simply = touch (touching); simply = sounds (hearing).

Thanks, Rali!
Love,
Robert

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert

Very good looking!

But bizarrely there’s a sense of «resting in a center » which is stubborn. How can there be a center when it’s so clear there’s no boundary for inside or outside?

it feels more like a center experiencing itself in openness. Only there’s no openness when I look for it. There’s only this. Each this feels like a center.

Now, what is «resting in a center » in DE (think cup of coffee example)? It is another sensation (feeling) right? What is “openness”? It is another more subtle sensation, right? Are there two sensations - one of "center" and one of "openness", OR one labelled "center experiencing itself in openness"? Do sensations have a location – left, right, up, down? Or “left” (e.g.”hand”) is a label for the sensation – description of how the sensation feels? Do you see a reference point? Just because a subtle sensation comes often does that mean there is a “me resting in the center”? If you have to point to this center, what would you point to? Heart? Head? What are these in DE?
Let’s explore this SENSE of center very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on “it” and inquire:

Does the center have a location?
Does the center have a shape or a size?
Does the center say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does it do this exactly?
Does the center have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the center ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
What is found?

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body that might help with this “center”. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
1. First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

2. Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

3. While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

4. Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

5. Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

6. Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

7. Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts). Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

8. Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

9. Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love
Rali

[robebor]

Hi Rali,

Something shifted on this one. Thanks again.

Now, what is «resting in a center » in DE (think cup of coffee example)? It is another sensation (feeling) right?

Yes, it's just a sensation (sensing).

What is “openness”? It is another more subtle sensation, right?

It's a more subtle sensation (sensing).
A

re there two sensations - one of "center" and one of "openness", OR one labelled "center experiencing itself in openness"?

It's more like one sensation ( a center experiencing itself in openness and strangely when I look more closely a radiance without a center).

Do sensations have a location – left, right, up, down? Or “left” (e.g.”hand”) is a label for the sensation – description of how the sensation feels? Do you see a reference point? Just because a subtle sensation comes often does that mean there is a “me resting in the center”? If you have to point to this center, what would you point to? Heart? Head? What are these in DE?

No there's no permanent location. When it's there, it's only there. There's clearly no left, no right, nor any other direction. There is clearly no me resting in the center. The center is whatever is being sensed. Just this.
The label for the sensation is not how the sensation feels.
The reference point is just this.
No I wouldn't point to a body part. Body parts aren't experienced directly for me. Heart and head are just quick toggling between sensing experienced as this and then a visual of "where" the sensation belongs on the that image and a thought (thinking).

Does the center have a location?

The center is not a location. It just arises without reference to anything else.

Does the center have a shape or a size?

No it feels the opposite of a shape or size.

Does the center say or communicate anything?

No the center does not say or communicate anything.

If the answer is yes, how does it do this exactly?

N/A

Does the center have any characteristics or attributes?

It has a characteristic of radiance. It has an attribute of something like pure non-reactivity. It's just it.

What is the center ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
What is found?

It's clearly not made of image, sound, taste, smell, thought. I can't say it's not made of sensation.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
1. First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

OK

2. Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

There is no connection between the felt sensations and them image in the mirror. The image has nothing to do with the sensations.

3. While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

The hand moving in the foreign looked bizarrely foreign. I still can't find a connection.
4

. Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

Looking at the hand also looked bizarrely foreign. Thoughts suggest a connection.

5. Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

The image is on the wrong side anyway. It feels foreign. As an image that falls off of the mirror as soon as body parts leave it, the image is not "me" or "my body."

6. Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

There is no knowledge that there must be feet, there are only thoughts and mental images suggesting feet must be there.

7. Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts). Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

There is no body anywhere when I turn away and don't look at a body part. There are only sensations.

8. Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

There is no body walking, only sensations.
There's hardness of the floor, simply sensations. There's images changing locations. There's no feeling of movement forward, but it feels like the room is moving, but a direction is hard to describe.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No body can be found. There are thoughts about a body. There's no such thing as walking that can be found.

9. Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There are changing images labeled as one thing "room" but it's clearly not one thing. It's more like sensations without a location.

Parking bike:
Pushing, simply= sensation (sensing)
Clicking of lock, simply= sound (hearing)
Seeing bike, simply= image (seeing)
Turning away, simply= thought (thinking)

Love,
Robert

[poppyseed]

Hi Robert

It's more like one sensation ( a center experiencing itself in openness and strangely when I look more closely a radiance without a center).

Does the center have any characteristics or attributes?

It has a characteristic of radiance. It has an attribute of something like pure non-reactivity. It's just it.

What is the center ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

It's clearly not made of image, sound, taste, smell, thought. I can't say it's not made of sensation.

Now, what is «radiance» in DE (think cup of coffee example)? It is a sensation (feeling) right?
This radiance could also be called aliveness, presence or I AM, but all of these are labels, are they not? Is there anything here that is not the senses?
Feeling (sensations) would be physical, but there are also sensations when you close your eyes that don't have a location (unless they are mapped onto an image of the body). The way I look at sensations is that they include anything that is sensed, such as touching a cup or feeling radiance. It's good to remember that we can only experience see, hear, feel, taste, smell and thought. Anything not in the first five is thought.

Is there anything particularly special about this sensation, besides that is “always” there? What makes it “special”? What makes it different from “head”, or “cold”, or “anger”, or “love”, or "heartbeat", or "breathing"? (emotion = sensation + thought)

The reference point is just this.

Does THIS then have left or right if it is a reference point? Does THIS have a location? Is there a reference point at all?

Heart and head are just quick toggling between sensing experienced as this and then a visual of "where" the sensation belongs on the that image and a thought (thinking).

What do you mean by “a visual of "where" the sensation belongs on the that image”? Seeing labelled “body part”? Or mental image (aka thought)?

Love
Rali