Hellou friends

[Elad]

"So much paradox in this process. Using language to see something beyond or before language. :D"

Right!


"What comes up is that "I" = my body and my life story. If I didn't exist the imagination then tries to subtract that from the rest of life and the world. What other way is there to understand this question? The other option is that my experience wouldn't exist. Like would I observe my life from the outside like a movie? This question is still quite random to me. There seem to be two standards of what qualifies an "I" here. One is dropped and another one that will keep going on."

No real I needs to be dropped and no real I needs to be kept. The label I and the conventional use of it will continue, while it is seen that it is thought and not a real separate self or agent.


""you will not disappear, you never were in the first place"

Then what's the point of this process?"

When you signed in to LU you were given documents to read. You were asked if you are interested in discovering the truth for its own sake, not to feel better or change your life (all though that often happens as a side effect).You accepted the content of these documents.




"

There is some before and after. There is a journey from A to B. A are the things that have been seen. B is what is not yet seen.

A) Looking.

- Existence. But no "I"
- There is only ever now.
- Seeing what is real when you are not subject to the "I" illusion.
- I am not the body, feeling or thoughts.
- No separation. No in here, no out there.
- Look closely at the most precious beliefs that are most close to the heart. Those in the no-touch zone. (follow the feeling of resistence)
- Does a tree or a bug mean anything? Does life need a meaning to carry on lifeing? Humans seek for meaning and put one where there isn't just to feel special. What is specialness? Uniqueness is at the core of everything.
- Do you need to seek meaning in order to be unique? No knowledge, experience or insight that will satisfy you. There is no you.
- Dissatisfaction with what is, is the essence of the illusory self. The self exists in appearance due to that very dissatisfaction.

B) Realisation

- There is only a change in perception. When you really see that the "I" is an illusion.
- Experiencing life directly, instead of a filter, without being caught up in the stories I tell myself about myself.
- Everything becomes very simple. The world of words and concepts no longer clutters everything
- The whole universe is one unified existence that is in a constant state of transformation and change and movement and functioning. Seamless flow of forms.
- Feelings, thoughts, judgments, obsessions of experiences are all a part of the flow of life. Freedom is realising that all this is happening to no-one.
- Thought will continue to happen.
- Freedom is not hidden, it's just a shift in perspective.
- Less stickiness to emotions.
- Seeing no-self is like seeing the diagnostic manual for suffering. The root of the problem is a thought.
- Waking up from a dream.
- Feeling that whatever you are is vastly different than what you have previously assumed to be.
- Feeling of wonder.
- See how powerful the illusion created by the mind is. (it's called non-duality but then there is still the mind and the illusion "it creates." Is that distinction helpful or is it in the way?)

Is there something missing to get to B? For this permanent change of perception to manifest?

"

You are a very intellectually smart guy in my opinion (and I am too) and its fun and interesting to read this. But trying to think it out this way is not the way we work here. We work with pointing and looking. It's all about observation of what is there and what is not there. That is all. Let's continue to aim for you to see it really clearly.

[Elad]

Good clarity with the questions. Re expectations, let's see if we can get more clarity.

Try for the next day to go back to believing in a separate self and in agency. After one day write me what has been seen.

I mean this seems obvious to me there is nothing I can do to change my belief in the self. How do I "believe" in a separate self. What can I "do" to make that happen?

Or agency. Like there is the belief of agency. I can investigate it but all that does is have more thoughts arise.

I will try to keep "doing" or more like pondering that throughout the day but it seems pointless to me.

Since this exercise is so unappealing to you, leave it for now. If later you become curious about it do it. Here is another exercise to do for the next day:

[Elad]

I know you have practiced things like this before. Please do it as freshly and sincerly as possible anyhow:


Finding the Gap


This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:-

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

[Elad]

Feel like adding:

Changes are a side-effect of seeing. If we think or evaluate in terms of side effects and changes it blocks us from seeing. The seeing is only seeing.

The more we are here just for the love of truth, the love of what is, the more we are prone to changes/side-effects. But its never a given how they will be and the moment we focus on them we are not seeing, we are craving for a fantasy to replace reality, which then stucks us. Of course we cannot stop that craving violently either. Best we can do is see what I write here and whatever else IS in direct experience.

[WoollyShower]

What do you refer to when you say "side effects"? Like specifically from this conversation?

[WoollyShower]

Ps: I'm not a guy ;)

[Elad]

Ps: I'm not a guy ;)

Oh my 🤣 apologies.

Side-effects is any of the stuff that people wish for in terms of changes in feelings, reduction of suffering, life improvements, etc. Can go many ways.

[WoollyShower]

Ohh, I get it. You refer to me listing quotes from the video you shared under A and B?

I was trying to respond to the video in a way to help you gauge where we're at in the process. I assumed you were still assessing what is not seen or how to continue guiding because you shared the video after asking this:

1) be more explicit. What changes and shift are still expected?

[Elad]

Got it. Yes I am aiming to see where you are at as clear as I can. So what is seen, is there a self, is there agency? Or are they only thoughts?

Any questions?

[WoollyShower]

I wasn't trying to be smart or solving with the intellect. Watching the video i happened to write down the quotes where something resonated and then commenting on it. I did it very quickly so no effort on being understood this time.

There is a lot a lot of emotional material coming up in the recent days, I hope it's not too distracting for you. It's mostly after effects from the operation. The physical healing is going quite fast but there is a lot of emotional turmoil.

[WoollyShower]

Got it. Yes I am aiming to see where you are at as clear as I can. So what is seen, is there a self, is there agency? Or are they only thoughts?

Ok not sure if that answers your questions. It came out as another status update for some reason:

There is no self, there are A LOT of thoughts and emotions.

Agency is even worse. More thoughts and confusion about that. It's making it hard to see. Mostly my strategy is to wait it out & keep at it. And not get sucked in the violent ruminations about that topic.

Doubt is strong, mostly this "lack of self esteem" energy that comes with ADHD, needing to check everything 300 times to be sure. Sense of helplessness.

Anger, frustration with the process. Negotiation about what's the "right way" of doing this.

It doesn't matter, I'm just sharing to give you a sense of what's going on at this side of the screens...

I know the answer and I also know it's not about understanding, it's about seeing. So I'm trying my best not to get sucked into these ongoing ruminations with varying success.

Example that has been going on for a while is that there is an attempt at forging a path by ruminating about what the implications of this or that aspect of the process are. I guess that's what you were referring to.

There's some laziness or deactivating resistance towards the mountain of stuff that's coming up, it is conspiring with the looking for alternate routes and frustration.

There is deep shame about potentially disappointing you by getting something wrong or failing the process. This is also not specific to the process but something that comes up often in other situations.

All thoughts. No problem. It's just a lot.

I'll keep doing exercises.

[Elad]

Got it. Yes I am aiming to see where you are at as clear as I can. So what is seen, is there a self, is there agency? Or are they only thoughts?

Ok not sure if that answers your questions. It came out as another status update for some reason:

There is no self, there are A LOT of thoughts and emotions.

Agency is even worse. More thoughts and confusion about that. It's making it hard to see. Mostly my strategy is to wait it out & keep at it. And not get sucked in the violent ruminations about that topic.

Doubt is strong, mostly this "lack of self esteem" energy that comes with ADHD, needing to check everything 300 times to be sure. Sense of helplessness.

Anger, frustration with the process. Negotiation about what's the "right way" of doing this.

It doesn't matter, I'm just sharing to give you a sense of what's going on at this side of the screens...

I know the answer and I also know it's not about understanding, it's about seeing. So I'm trying my best not to get sucked into these ongoing ruminations with varying success.

Example that has been going on for a while is that there is an attempt at forging a path by ruminating about what the implications of this or that aspect of the process are. I guess that's what you were referring to.

There's some laziness or deactivating resistance towards the mountain of stuff that's coming up, it is conspiring with the looking for alternate routes and frustration.

There is deep shame about potentially disappointing you by getting something wrong or failing the process. This is also not specific to the process but something that comes up often in other situations.

All thoughts. No problem. It's just a lot.

I'll keep doing exercises.

Sounds like a lot of clarity here about the process. You are right there. Take the time you need to feel all the feels and weather the storms.

When ready look to be clear, is there any separate agent /agency at all? What is it that is imagined to be in control or in your agency and is it really?

But maybe wait with looking at that till you feel more available. You need to feel available to just look at it, from a calm place that is not making it about emotions// safety// good/bad-life. For now be kind with the emotions/heart.

Write when ready 🙏🤍

[Elad]

And make good use of this opportunity to see the "transference patterns" of bad student/disappointed disapproving teacher that come up. It's a good chance to feel the feelings that relate to that and become more free from this transference so you can enjoy yourself and connections to people like me more and feel more safe and clear in it

[WoollyShower]

I know you have practiced things like this before. Please do it as freshly and sincerly as possible anyhow:


Finding the Gap


This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:-

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

Hey Elad,

I tried doing this yesterday and it was interesting but also there are a couple of considerations due to my ADHD throwing a couple of wrenches into the works. You can picture my thoughts as cars speeding down a highway, and I'm on the sideline trying to catch their license plates. By the time my brain registers one, a whole fleet of new thoughts zooms in to take its place. It's like my mind's own version of rush hour, only it's less about congestion and more about keeping up with the speed. Right now, what's happening when trying to follow your instructions is to jump in and chase after each thought-car that passes by, instead of just letting them roll on without me, which gives the sensation of many many thoughts happening at the same time, although it's more about their incredible speed...

Then there's the whole thing about stepping back and observing without getting swept up in the action. Most of the times I get swept up by the content of the thoughts. This is much better from when I started meditating many years ago when I used to get lost in thought for minutes or tens of minutes at a time. Now it's not that strong any more. Either way I'm not really able most of the times to observe thoughts coming by and I have a hunch that i need to first learn something else: watching my thoughts. When thoughts come up I get "sucked" into them. Meaning that I get most of the times engrossed in the content of the thought and I'm not able to watch the thought just happening.

I'm going to experiment with labeling these thoughts in hopes of either slowing down the traffic a bit or at least not feeling compelled to chase down every single one. Just keeping you in the loop here and eager to hear any adjustments or insights you might have to offer.

See ya

[WoollyShower]

Ok I tried labelling but it went the wrong direction and made it even harder for me to observe the thoughts.

I decided to go back to the twim practice that I'm using intuitively and focusing on the sensations that are underlying the thoughts but instead of using it to dissolve the thoughts i came up with an approach that will hopefully help me to witness the thoughts and that will be able to help me do your exercise. I'll report back tomorrow what i noticed