Looking to find a self

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

How are you?

I’ve had a major unforseen work disruption, that kind of knocked me sideways. So I’ve been strategising on how to exit this situation.

Nevertheless, its not exactly been smooth sailing in my life but learnt a few important work related lessons. It has sort of settled down to where I can look again.

Not sure where to pick this inquiry up from.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Not sure where to pick this inquiry up from.

It has to come from you Harry. What’s coming up?

Jon

[Harry1]

Lots of feelings of dread, confusion and anxiety coming in waves, triggered by certain negative automatic thoughts about a “me” and the situation ‘I’ am in has mainly been what been bubbling away.

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Lots of feelings of dread, confusion and anxiety coming in waves, triggered by certain negative automatic thoughts about a “me” and the situation ‘I’ am in has mainly been what been bubbling away.
Top

Ok. Is it possible to notice those sensations and the thoughts that appear in relation to them, as they are happening? I know this may not be easy or comfortable so take it gently. But if it is possible to just see them appear, remain “live” for a while and then fade away, this will be useful.

If it is possible notice any reference to “Harry” or “I” in the thoughts. Do these references point to a real “self”, or is it the impression of one?

Similarly, sensations of dread or anxiety are worth looking at. It can often be assumed that these energetic sensations are evidence of a self. Just notice these and see if they lead to a “me” , a fix entity?

Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Everything has settled down. I’m still in the situation but the emotions are not as charged.

Still looking at these questions. I can see thoughts clearly appear and dissolve. I can see they have the idea of a me in them that goes through time. They point to an impression of a self. They aren’t solid. I can see the energetic sensations that also appear with them. Anxiety, dread, also other feelings.

There are also a lot of other feelings that come and go and give an impression of a self. From tension in the jaw, to a feeling of effort and focusing on the questions.

All very interesting.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Still looking at these questions. I can see thoughts clearly appear and dissolve. I can see they have the idea of a me in them that goes through time.

Great! This is good. Yes, it does seem to be an idea or impression of a me in thoughts. As you say, “through time”. There is the appearance of an unchanging entity that ‘passes through time’. But time it’s self is of interest too. How much of ‘time’ is to do with thoughts ABOUT time?

Is it possible to experience ‘the past’ directly?
Is it possible to experience ‘future’ directly
Right here and now are either of these happening?

It is certainly possible for thoughts about past or future to appear, or images, impressions.

I can see the energetic sensations that also appear with them. Anxiety, dread, also other feelings.

Excellent looking! It’s interesting to take a look at the sensation or atmosphere surrounding thoughts about ‘future’ or ‘past’. Do these two have a kind of flavour? (Fix example anxiety about what may happen in a future, or regret about what did or didn’t happen in ‘past’)?

Do either of these ‘places’ exist?

There are also a lot of other feelings that come and go and give an impression of a self. From tension in the jaw, to a feeling of effort and focusing on the questions.

All very interesting.

Excellent Harry! Often it’s this sort of interest that takes self-inquiry forward. How fascinating some of this looking can be.

Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for this. I’m enjoying this inquiry.

Great! This is good. Yes, it does seem to be an idea or impression of a me in thoughts. As you say, “through time”. There is the appearance of an unchanging entity that ‘passes through time’. But time it’s self is of interest too. How much of ‘time’ is to do with thoughts ABOUT time?

Is it possible to experience ‘the past’ directly?
Is it possible to experience ‘future’ directly
Right here and now are either of these happening?

It is certainly possible for thoughts about past or future to appear, or images, impressions.

It is not possible to experience past or future directly. They are just thoughts, pretty much imaginings of what may have happened or what will happen. Right now they are not happening. What is happening is sounds, sights, thoughts about all different things, feelings, taste and sensations.

Right now attention is drifting to sounds of birds and water rushing in a drain pipe. Peaceful feelings come up listening to that.

Excellent looking! It’s interesting to take a look at the sensation or atmosphere surrounding thoughts about ‘future’ or ‘past’. Do these two have a kind of flavour? (Fix example anxiety about what may happen in a future, or regret about what did or didn’t happen in ‘past’)?

Do either of these ‘places’ exist?

Yes there are flavours or energetic sensations that arise at the same time as thoughts of past and future. They are as you say anxiety, regret, joy, anger. All manner of sensations lend to a strong impression that they happened or will happen.

Harry

[Harry1]

To your final question

Do either of these ‘places’ exist?

These ‘places (past and future)’ only appear in imagination. They only exist to the extent that they pop up in a thought happening now.

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Thanks for this. I’m enjoying this inquiry.

I’m very happy to hear it Harry

Right now attention is drifting to sounds of birds and water rushing in a drain pipe. Peaceful feelings come up listening to that.

Lovely.

Have we ever really been ‘separate’ from what’s already here, happening right now, such as these sounds of birds and the sense of peace?

Sensations are always available.

Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

I’ve sat with the pointing.

I have some interesting things to share.

I saw in my latest inquiry that having a strong belief in the self that appears from time to time and confusion about not seeingbl that there is no self that also appears from time to time are big components of what keeps the illusion going. If that makes sense. They perpetuate it.

Getting lost in thoughts about an I strongly lend to the illusion. It provides some weight because when you re lost in thought, ‘you’ seems really important.

When sounds are paid attention to, attention drifts to the forehead and face and the focusing and solid feeling makes it seem like there is a self actively focusing or there. This also lends to the illusion.

:)

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

When sounds are paid attention to, attention drifts to the forehead and face and the focusing and solid feeling makes it seem like there is a self actively focusing or there. This also lends to the illusion.

Yes that sounds familiar :)

So this time attention went to drifting and focusing, with an impression of a ‘self’ doing that. Well noticed!

But the first time, where you mentioned the feeling of peace, it sounds like that was freer and just happened naturally?


“Doiness”, (To make up a word for it), the impression of doing things , or having to do something , decide something or choose something; these are very frequently accompanied by an inbuilt thought-assumption of a “doer” or self. This can be a real sticking point for some people. They begin to see that there is no actual fixed entity or self but as soon as they try to meditate, or go to buy paint to decorate a room (or anything else that seems to require effort, they report that “someone must be doing that”. With that deduction it’s a matter of habit to believe that there must be a “doer”. But investigation into the detail reveals no such doer.

Do you make anything happen?

Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Yes that sounds familiar :)

So this time attention went to drifting and focusing, with an impression of a ‘self’ doing that. Well noticed!

But the first time, where you mentioned the feeling of peace, it sounds like that was freer and just happened naturally?

Yes it happened naturally. Attention just drifted to the sounds and a feeling of peace arose to accompany them. It was very pleasant.

“Doiness”, (To make up a word for it), the impression of doing things , or having to do something , decide something or choose something; these are very frequently accompanied by an inbuilt thought-assumption of a “doer” or self. This can be a real sticking point for some people. They begin to see that there is no actual fixed entity or self but as soon as they try to meditate, or go to buy paint to decorate a room (or anything else that seems to require effort, they report that “someone must be doing that”. With that deduction it’s a matter of habit to believe that there must be a “doer”. But investigation into the detail reveals no such doer.

Do you make anything happen?

‘I’ do not make anything happen. There are spontaneous actions and then there is a feeling of doing or exerting effort that arises of its own accord. Then there are thoughts that say ‘I’, did things in the past or will do things in the future.

It's very interesting to watch. What makes it so compelling is this solid-lish-densish feeling of ‘I’ that arises and makes it seem personal. It happens in the head. We've gone through that one before though. It's the same feeling-thought-belief that says there is an I. When looking no I is found there though.

There still seems to be a sticky belief in I though. It keeps reappearing. It says ‘I’ am not quite done.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

There still seems to be a sticky belief in I though. It keeps reappearing. It says ‘I’ am not quite done.

Interesting.

I wonder if it’s true? And to whom it could apply?


Love

Jon

[Harry1]

I wonder as well. It's interesting, thinking badly wants the answer and tries to grasp no-self. That's what is happening at the moment.

I find attention doing its own thing, actions happening, a sense of self arising in the head and face but still not quite there.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

but still not quite there.

Do you mean that someone still hasn’t quite gained enlightenment?

Love

Jon