What am I?

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Bluejay
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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:36 pm

So, in the blackness, my thought was, maybe there is no I? And that was recognized at truth, but thought of Lori came up, and i thought, well, yes, there is a Lori. Lori is this thinking mechanism, even though I don't see an origin. I didn't know where to go with that thought, as I seem to go in frustrating circles. I can recognize that thoughts don't come from anywhere, I search for their origin, and find nothing. But then the thought of Lori shows up as the person orchestrating these things with no origin. How do I tie the two together? i am finding strong resistance.
Let's explore this next pointer and then the next one after that, and perhaps the way to inquire into this becomes clearer. If not, let me know :)

Explore ‘Sense of Self'

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there.

You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this sense of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by feeling it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:51 pm

Does the sense of self have a location? In my chest

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size? no

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything? at first anger, then when I looked at the anger, stone cold fear

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly? feeling

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes? fear

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? no Sound? no Taste?no Smell? no Sensation? yes Thought? no

What is found? fear
I did the above last night, and this morning I went through it again, although I have less time. However i felt love for Lori this morning. Very different vibe.

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:55 pm

It clearly feels like a death. Lori has served as best she can, is it possible to love her away?

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Bluejay
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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:17 am

It clearly feels like a death. Lori has served as best she can, is it possible to love her away?
Of course. Love is complete acceptance. And the character Lori always did her best.

Now I'd like you to take your answers to the sense of self questions and inquire into each sense individually (see, hear, feel, smell, taste) + thought.

For example:

The sensations in the chest, are those sensations the self?
The stone cold fear, is that the self?
The thought that says the self is sensation, is that the self?

And so on. As you inquire, more thoughts and sensations may arise, so keep inquiring into those. If you reach a silence/space, just rest there. There is no answer to these questions in thought. The experience and lack of an answer is the answer.

Let me know if you have any questions. :)

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:52 pm

Does the sense of self have a location? In my chest
The sensations in the chest, are those sensations the self?

Lori/Chest sensation today is - see? hear? smell? Taste? no
feel? felt nauseous when exploring the origin of Lori; resisting the not finding one;

Nausea - is this Lori? Sat with the nauseousness for awhile, chasing Lori all over the place. Finally sat in relative silence in a feeling good space, as in felt calm. Nauseousness left. Lori has talons! However I think the grip is loosening. This is morning, I will do this again tonight.

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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:17 pm

Lori has talons! However I think the grip is loosening.
Where is the Lori that has talons? :)
I will do this again tonight.
Okay, let me know how it goes!

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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:14 pm

I just sat again, and 'I' was found in my body; I was the feeling, seeing, smelling, tasting. So I went through them all, and found out that "I' am not doing any of those things; I could not find anything that created or catalogued or did anything to or for any of them. They have no origin IN the body....

Now I was back to: Where is this elusive 'Lori' ??? My thought would be 'Lori', and I would look where that came from, and it came from nowhere. I sat with the nowhere, which had a different feel to it; it has a sweet spot. I could focus on this sweet spot and also thoughts would arise in the distance, but not grip me.

I opened my eyes. Life, as usual. I have had some visual things happen over these last few days, but they are always fleeting, and just odd. For instance just now the white things in the room were glowing brightly, a light blue. I try to just look and admire, without much thought.

Also, it feels like I am being woken up, by awareness. I will be asleep, and then the sweet feeling of Awareness (I think that's what it is) is there. It makes me wide awake, clear headed. Everything in the room, including the air, is spinning, indulating vibrating. It lasts for as long as I pay attention to it. It slowly fades when I get up.

Is this real? Or a distraction? It really doesn't affect my search for self. That is still the slog of ages...

-Lori

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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:32 am

I just sat again, and 'I' was found in my body; I was the feeling, seeing, smelling, tasting. So I went through them all, and found out that "I' am not doing any of those things; I could not find anything that created or catalogued or did anything to or for any of them. They have no origin IN the body....
Now, with the inquiry into self, you will need to do this over and over until something clicks experientially, in the body. So keep doing this whenever a sense of self arises.
I opened my eyes. Life, as usual. I have had some visual things happen over these last few days, but they are always fleeting, and just odd. For instance just now the white things in the room were glowing brightly, a light blue. I try to just look and admire, without much thought.
Sounds good. Just enjoy, but don't cling to any experience.
I will be asleep, and then the sweet feeling of Awareness (I think that's what it is) is there. It makes me wide awake, clear headed. Everything in the room, including the air, is spinning, indulating vibrating. It lasts for as long as I pay attention to it. It slowly fades when I get up.

Is this real? Or a distraction? It really doesn't affect my search for self. That is still the slog of ages...
There can be an aliveness when this deepens, but like I said above, anything else can become a distraction.

So beware of thoughts assigning meaning to what is happening, or wanting more/less of it, or self-evaluation (oh, this happened, so it must mean...). When this happens, go directly to the body, and feel what is being avoided by going into thinking.
Also, it feels like I am being woken up, by awareness.
What is awareness in direct experience?

Is there awareness and sensations/sounds/thoughts? Are there two things?

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:18 pm

Now, with the inquiry into self, you will need to do this over and over until something clicks experientially, in the body. So keep doing this whenever a sense of self arises.
The good news is I am noticing the 'I' references whereas I didn't recognize them before. So I will inquire as much as possible.


Is there awareness and sensations/sounds/thoughts? Are there two things?

In these experiences, I can have random thoughts, and it has no affect on what's happening in the room. I can observe, but my mind isn't one with it. What is this? It is a silence. Something palpable, but not a thought. Is it in the air? No, it IS the air. it is the cause.I feel every cell in my body sparkling. But my mind is separate from this 'everything just is.' My body seems to be part of it. I have heard people talk of 'is-ness' and this is what they mean I guess. A chair, a couch. Writing about it brings it into the space.
What is awareness in direct experience?

Is it what I've written above? I can only describe it as a vibe, and I am a holdout. It's everywhere, everything, but there is something keeping me separate. Perhaps that exact thought? I don't know.

My plan today, although i am traveling and have that to contend with, is, pursue Lori's origin when she comes to the forefront. Which is often. Thank you!

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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:31 pm

The good news is I am noticing the 'I' references whereas I didn't recognize them before. So I will inquire as much as possible.
That is glorious!
Is it what I've written above? I can only describe it as a vibe, and I am a holdout. It's everywhere, everything, but there is something keeping me separate. Perhaps that exact thought? I don't know.
You answered both of my questions with what sounds like thinking, which sounds great, but it is not direct experience.

Remember, there is only seeing, hearing, feeling, taste, smell, and thought. If you cannot see, hear, feel, taste, smell it, then it is thought. If something says 'Something palpable, but not a thought' and it's not in direct experience, then it is a thought.

So when you look, what is awareness in direct experience?

It may help to close your eyes and notice what is labeled awareness, then let go of the label, and look in direct experience, what is there?
My plan today, although i am traveling and have that to contend with, is, pursue Lori's origin when she comes to the forefront. Which is often. Thank you!
Sounds good!

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:03 am

So when you look, what is awareness in direct experience?
I don't know how to answer without thought. So, perhaps it is just thought and not awareness. A fancy distraction. My feeling inside the body is aliveness, a zillion bubbling vibrations. My head experiences dizziness. Is this resistance, the dizzyness? I don't know. It's been like this all day, on and off. If I sit, I am buzzing with aliveness, but my mind is dull, dizzy. Is this TMI? These are feelings or are they thoughts? I feel it, so feelings? My head is a little unclear.

Good news: I did remember to watch self thoughts, for a good part of the day. Bad news: It is incessant. Constantly reaffirming self is here because, x, y z proves it. Ugh. So much to dismantle, if it must be dismantled.

Back to searching through my coat pockets for keys I know aren't there...

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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:22 am

I don't know how to answer without thought. So, perhaps it is just thought and not awareness. A fancy distraction. My feeling inside the body is aliveness, a zillion bubbling vibrations.
It's good to practice direct experience. What is experienced is always:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


And on top of this is thought content. So when you look at awareness, you are either seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling or tasting something. The rest is thought. So let's look again and again until you see what is there.

Is it sensations? A taste? A sound? What is it that is called awareness for you?
Is this TMI? These are feelings or are they thoughts? I feel it, so feelings? My head is a little unclear.
If there is wanting to figure it out, then that is thinking distracting from feeling.

As for the dizziness, that could be many things. Have you been to a doctor to make sure it's not anything else?
My head is a little unclear.
Why this importance placed on head being clear or unclear? Understanding is not important here, only looking and seeing what is going on.

Do you need a clear head to go outside and watch the birds, or watch the trees sway in the wind?
Good news: I did remember to watch self thoughts, for a good part of the day. Bad news: It is incessant. Constantly reaffirming self is here because, x, y z proves it. Ugh. So much to dismantle, if it must be dismantled.

Back to searching through my coat pockets for keys I know aren't there...
Thoughts say there is much to dismantle, and it is believed. The world of thought seems complex and daunting, when in fact it is nothing at all.

Can you give me an example of a self thought?

Then break it down into the direct experience 'categories'. You seem to have trouble with this, which means you're likely in thinking most of the time.

When there is a feeling of self there, there's likely to be at least thought and sensation, so you break it down like this:

Thought saying 'I am here', is that thought the self?
Sensation somewhere in the body (where??), are those sensations the self? Do they know anything about a self?

Break it down into see, hear, feel, smell, taste. What is it?

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:13 pm

What is experienced is always:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)
Thank you! Yesterday was filled with disappointment at how strong the feeling of 'self' is, which is just thought. And now it's yesterday's news! Yay! Today brings fresh eyes and ears.
Have you been to a doctor to make sure it's not anything else?
I am fine, it comes only with the other attributes of awareness. It is actually blocking thought, and I am pushing against it! So, I will stop pushing and just feel the senses.

Can you give me an example of a self thought?


I will do this...<fill in anything> ...with the thought behind, this is who Lori is, Lori is the caretaker, good person, kind, bla, bla. bla. It's MY car. "I" don't like the news. I, me, thoughts all day long, being studied. Ugh.
I created misery here in this body with my intention to look at thought content. It spurred it on! I see that now. It only created a circle of distress. :p

I have this moment, now, to be quiet in.
Thought saying 'I am here', is that thought the self?
Sensation somewhere in the body (where??), are those sensations the self? Do they know anything about a self?

Break it down into see, hear, feel, smell, taste. What is it?
Okay, I will look for body sensations today, to see if there's self in them. Ah, relief. That feels soooo much better. Yesterday was painful.

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Bluejay
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Re: What am I?

Postby Bluejay » Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:19 pm

You skipped the question on awareness. Here it is again:

"So when you look at awareness, you are either seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling or tasting something. The rest is thought. So let's look again and again until you see what is there.

Is it sensations? A taste? A sound? What is it that is called awareness for you?"

I am fine
Ok, good :)
I will do this...<fill in anything> ...with the thought behind, this is who Lori is, Lori is the caretaker, good person, kind, bla, bla. bla. It's MY car. "I" don't like the news. I, me, thoughts all day long, being studied. Ugh.
I created misery here in this body with my intention to look at thought content. It spurred it on! I see that now. It only created a circle of distress. :p
Isolate one of those thoughts like: 'Lori is the caretaker'

Where is Lori?
Is the thought 'Lori is the caretaker', is that it?
Sensation somewhere in the body, are those sensations the I/Lori?

Look in all sense gates (see, hear, feel, smell, taste).

Remember, don't go into thinking. The moment you're in thought content, that's not it. No landing in thought is the answer. The absence of an answer is the answer.
I created misery here in this body with my intention to look at thought content.
Where is this I that created misery? Just inquire into the senses.

It's good that you have a lot of thoughts coming. Lots to inquire into!

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LoriAnn
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Re: What am I?

Postby LoriAnn » Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:04 pm

Looking for Lori - went into meditation and l find ooking for her without thought is difficult. Then I breathe in and try and get a sense of her with my breath, is she breathing me? No. There is only a big empty space of awareness. I sit in this empty space, but I am out of time! I have to be somewhere.

This seems to happen alot, am I doing it on purpose? Is there a point, to getting on what feels ike the brink of letting go, but then my alarm goes off? I keep at it for as long as I can, but I will let people down if I don't get up. Lori again.

I look for awareness with my eyes open, and it is here... but where? It is everywhere, but then things start to move, teeny tiny dots moving. They turn white, like a sheet. Awareness is a sheet? Haha.


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