Liberation lost and found

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sarah,

What's up? Still there?

Much love,

[SarahLuna]

I have been thinking a lot about your response. We may have to agree to disagree.

As far as I understand, the pain body is an entity that produces thoughts. But it’s not just thoughts. It also produces somatic experiences. If it’s simply denied, and the associated feelings remain repressed, it gets somatised as chronic pain. We can’t ask if repression is true or not. It’s not in our conscious awareness. We can ask if chronic illness is true or not. If you think that’s a lie too, though, then fair enough.

Trauma involves a story, but it’s also held in the body. And it can be pre-verbal, so not actually involve a story. Unless the body is also a lie, in which case we are talking on an absolute level, so everything is a lie, and nothing exists at all. Which is what Rupert Spira said in a recent retreat I attended: he said that intimately, nothing exists.

This is fine, but I still need to live my illusory life. Though it gets lives for me, as I am just life itself. Or the illusion of it. So I guess we end up talking on two different levels.

"Who would you be without that thought?"

Spiritually bypassing, like my mother, who is a Tibetan Buddhist nun!

I can understand that my ‘self’ didn’t experience trauma, as I have no self. My body did, though. So do I have to believe that I don’t have a body?

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sarah,

Glad to see you are still here.

everything is a lie, and nothing exists at all

I guess we end up talking on two different levels.

Exactly! We end up in a paradox when we do. There *are* kind of 2 levels. One is the Absolute, where it is absolutely true that "everything is a lie, and nothing exists at all. Yes.

Then there is the relative, what you call "living my life." Yes.

One of my teachers put it like this, "Right, there is no "I," but if you step out in front of a bus, you'll die."

So. We are mostly working on the Absolute level here, and trying to clear up any lies in the relative that may be in the way of fully SEEING that there is no separate self.

Now about the so-called "body," please work with the following pointer:

[Anastacia42]

Oops, slip of the cursor.

Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Also, I fully hear you about "spiritual bypassing." We definitely do not want that either. This requires us to work with the paradox of no self, no body and self that experienced something traumatizing. Really, the answer is always "both."

Same thing with whether we go in through thoughts, as in The Work of Byron Katie or go in through the body and Sensation, as in Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) or Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE) or BreathWork or any kind of somatic work. The answer is that both are valid. Some people work better with one door or the other.

BOTH can work. I've done all of these, through thoughts and through the body at one time or another.

Much love,

[SarahLuna]

Thanks. I can accept that the answer is that there are two realities. I like what your teacher says about stepping in front of a bus. Will do the body exercise.

Sarah.

[Anastacia42]

Great Always all if you have questions or feel confused. We all have different ways of saying & doing the same thing.

Loving

[SarahLuna]

Thanks.

I’m doing a shamanic sweatlodge retreat this week, so I will see what insights arise in terms of both trauma and no self. I will let you know if anything comes up.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. I had free both participated in and led sweat lodges. They usually are not about no self. Sweating is good for the body, though.

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Do you still want to be guided here?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sarah,

I haven't heard from you in 2 weeks. Are you stopping?

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sarah,

So, are you going to continue with your videos with Ilona and stop this thread?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27WwZvPF4yE

Please confirm.

Thank you!