EllejBee ad nauseum

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

If meeting a no from heart or mind:

Ask them gently why?
What is missing?
What do you need?

Mind you could then very gently ask if would like to be relaxed and free from pointless tasks and if it would like to be relaxed and useful. If it is ready to be released from all tasks that do not serve?

At every no, ask again why? What is missing? What do you need?


Trisha

[ElleBee]

Thanks Trisha, I will give that a try. Not getting a no specifically, but also not sure I'm getting a clear yes either. Although the heart is fine with just about everything.

[ElleBee]

Hi Trisha!

I asked some questions. As I said before, the heart seems fine with everything. Whenever I ask it a question, I always get something about "focus", like it wants that to happen.

For the mind, it didn't give lots of trouble, it agrees with what you said about being free from pointless tasks. It may be ready to shift its focus!

So what is the next step?

I am rereading Gateless Gatecrashers, as LU's reading materials (the book off of Amazon as well) seem to enhance focus.

Thanks!

Lisa

[TeeKa112]

HI Lisa,

As I said before, the heart seems fine with everything. Whenever I ask it a question, I always get something about "focus", like it wants that to happen.

OK, very nice. Thank the heart for being fine with everything and giving you these information.


Let’s ask the heart then what it wants to focus on.

Ask the heart what it is that is wants that happens?

Ask the heart if it needs or wants the mind to do something?

If yes, what does heart want the mind to do?


While asking these questions, be attentive to all body sensations.
They might be different for each question.


What does heart want to focus on? Does heart has a desire?
What does it want to happen?
Does it want to involve the mind?

What are the sensations when talking with the Heart?
Please describe as exact as possible.

I am rereading Gateless Gatecrashers

Very good Lisa.

Can you find the moments when the clients start to SEE and their tone and language turn from intellectual to individual, personal, emotional, experiential? Try to find the turning point.


You are vey welcome and looking forward to your findings.

Trisha

[ElleBee]

Hi Trisha,

This isn't in response to your previous message (which I will do, I just got done reading it). This is something that happened (thoughts) that I am not sure what they are. They are thoughts.

The thought appeared that there is only one thing going on constantly, that is a constant effort to tie everything to the false "I". Everything, no exceptions. Even analogies, when I try to frame these exercises to something the "I" is familiar with, that is more effort to tie this material, these exercises, to the false "I" yet again. Over and over and over. It never stops.

The thought came that there is either tying everything to this false "I" and not being aware of that (not seeing), OR, to see that this is going on. And there isn't anything else to do. See, or not.

Will be experimenting with this exercise with the heart. Very funny how it always mentions focus.

Lisa

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

The thought appeared:

one thing going on
constant effort
tie everything to the false ‘I’
no exceptions
even analogies

Lisa, which ‘I’? What is a false ‘I’?

Look, there is no ‘I’ at all. No independent entity or separate self. No. Nothing.


The illusion of an independent ‘I’ is created and constantly gets recreated by thoughts.

Thoughts come as analogies, as repetitions and so connect familiar thoughts,
and by doing so, this idea of an ‘I’, of the existence of a separate entity is created again and again.

There is no ‘I’ outside of thoughts.


Now check for yourself:

Can you find what is doing thoughts?
Can a creator or director or manager of thoughts and thought content be found?

Can you find an ‘I’ anywhere? Or only in thoughts?

the heart. Very funny how it always mentions focus.

You have already questions for the heart, since this comes up again:

ask the Heart also, if it wants the focus on what is true, that there is no separate entity or ‘I’?


Let me know what is seen and discovered and happening


Looking forward

Trisha

[ElleBee]

Hi Trisha,

The false "I" is redundant, of course it's false. What was observed was the "manufacture" of what appears to be "Me" through everything coming in through the senses and thoughts. I saw (for a brief time) the process as it was occurring where all the input from the senses gets assigned to "I" and all the thoughts. Not saying it's true, but it was happening, it's always happening, and it was observable. Being manufactured, it was apparent that it is not a thing on its own, it doesn't really exist, any more than any other thought. An assemblage of thoughts.

What does heart want to focus on? Does heart has a desire?
What does it want to happen?
Does it want to involve the mind?

It said it needs the Mind to listen to the "inner voice". (Whatever that is.) And something about "It stands ready to instruct/alert? (not sure which was the right word here).

What are the sensations when talking with the Heart?
Please describe as exact as possible.

Sensations are very subtle, as these were thoughts. What appeared to happen was I read the questions and these thoughts came in quickly. The quickness, clarity, and brevity with which they came in lead me to write them down as answers. Not sure how to distinguish "Heart thoughts" from "Mind thoughts" from "regular thoughts", other than I started asking the Heart and those thoughts came in, so they are assigned as "Heart thoughts". For sensations, when addressing the heart, there is a very slight warmth and fullness to the chest area, and with the mind this is absent. That's the only difference in sensations.

Thanks!

Lisa

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

What was observed was the "manufacture" of what appears to be "Me" through everything coming in through the senses and thoughts. I saw (for a brief time) the process as it was occurring where all the input from the senses gets assigned to "I" and all the thoughts.

Well done, a great observation. I like ‘manufacture’……
Brief or not doesn’t matter really….

Not saying it's true, but it was happening, it's always happening, and it was observable. Being manufactured,

You were able to observe how the creation of this illusion or idea of ‘I’ is happening, I suggest that your observation is true :-)

it was apparent that it is not a thing on its own, it doesn't really exist, any more than any other thought. An assemblage of thoughts.

How does it make you Feel, Lisa, to observe how this illusion of an ‘me’ or ‘I’ gets created or manufactured?

What are the sensations in your body to See that ‘I’ is ‘an assemblage of thoughts’?





Looking forward to your answers and then we will proceed from there

Bye for now and see you soon


Trisha

[ElleBee]

Hi Trisha!

How does it make you Feel, Lisa, to observe how this illusion of an ‘me’ or ‘I’ gets created or manufactured?

What are the sensations in your body to See that ‘I’ is ‘an assemblage of thoughts’?

When this happens, it feels very, very light. Absence of pressure, and an underlying sense of joy and fun. And Playfulness! Noticing that there is so much to notice, and wondering what "I" will notice next. New eyes on everything. The heavy weight of adulthood disappears.

I asked again about the heart thing, I got an answer, and it was very strange. The answer was almost snarky, something like "I keep telling you to focus" and then through a few more questions the thought (because it's always thoughts, it's only thoughts) came in that this isn't a "heart" or "mind" thing, there's only one voice. And that could be why I got the "inner voice" answer earlier. I asked "Focus on what?" and the answer was focus on what is truth (or "the truth"). I asked "How do I do that?" and got "Ask". Ask to be shown, maybe. That seemed to be what the focus was about, the desire -- to have that desire. And there apparently isn't anything "I" can do (!), all I can do is ask, have intention. I can kind of understand that meaning.

My takeaway from the "experience" (this word doesn't really fit, but it's the only one I can think of) of seeing the "I" manufactured is that this is something available all the time, and can be invited in through focusing (meditating/intent-ing, AWAR-ING). And nothing else. Awareness has to do AWAR-ING. If it gets overridden by thoughts, labels, attached emotions, then the awar-ing gets plastered over. Still there, but underneath a lot of crap.
And this was a lot of thoughts used to describe something that is the absence of all descriptive "things" that weigh us down. Please ignore the excess words, the truth stands on its own and doesn't need the words.

Thanks Trisha! The whole "inner voice" thing is confusing, but maybe it's just there to help with the intent thing, for encouragement (kind of like what you do!).

Lisa

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

When this happens, it feels very, very light. Absence of pressure, and an underlying sense of joy and fun. And Playfulness!

Lisa, do you remember what these body sensations point to?


Is what you experience true or a lie?

wondering what "I" will notice next

Asking:

What is this ‘I’ that might notice next, if any 'I' is only manufactured?

Is there somebody doing noticing?

Is an ‘I’ or ‘Lisa’ needed for noticing to happen?

My takeaway from the "experience" (this word doesn't really fit, but it's the only one I can think of) of seeing the "I" manufactured

What is the problem with the word ‘experience’? What else is there beside experience?


Lisa, please look into this question. Deeply. It is important.

You are keeping the investigations often in an intellectual way. Keeping it safe. Not experiencing but explaining…..I am sure you know that......



Yes, heart, mind, inner voice is always the same. We can’t explain really, but it works. These are all different aspects of ‘Lisa’.

focus on what is truth (or "the truth »)

Isn’t that great, to get this answer?

"How do I do that?" and got « Ask ». .

Ask to be shown, maybe

Maybe it’s not ‘Ask to be shown’ but ‘Ask and truth will show itself’………????

That seemed to be what the focus was about, the desire -- to have that desire. And there apparently isn't anything "I" can do (!), all I can do is ask, have intention. I can kind of understand that meaning.

LIsa, the asking is provided, that is what we are doing here when guiding our clients.

Asking/questions that point into the direction of truth.


Take the questions/asking, ASK and LOOK so that SEEING and Truth Showing can happen.

The whole "inner voice" thing is confusing, but maybe it's just there to help with the intent thing, for encouragement (kind of like what you do!).

Yes.

Please answer all the questions in blue.



Looking forward to how it goes :-)

Trisha

[ElleBee]

Hi Trisha!


Yes, I do remember this part being True:

Lisa, do you remember what these body sensations point to?
Is what you experience true or a lie?

What is this ‘I’ that might notice next, if any 'I' is only manufactured?

It is something else that I call "I", but it can't be "I". The conglomeration of thoughts?

Is there somebody doing noticing?

No! It's that conglomeration of thoughts again. (These questions point right at that, don't they?)

Is an ‘I’ or ‘Lisa’ needed for noticing to happen?

No again.

What is the problem with the word ‘experience’? What else is there beside experience?

Experience is a great word for the senses. Seeing the assembly of "I" was somehow beyond experiencing though. I don't want to create another dumb analogy, but it felt "outside" of everything that is normally experienced, like sitting outside looking in. It was a unique change in perspective that was experienced, which had nothing to do with the senses as far as I could tell.

What is this ‘I’ that might notice next, if any 'I' is only manufactured?

It is the absence of "I". What do we call that? It doesn't exist, but it is noticing.

Is there somebody doing noticing?

Noticing is happening.

Is an ‘I’ or ‘Lisa’ needed for noticing to happen?

No. Noticing happens AND there is no "I", just an assemblage of thoughts.

Maybe it’s not ‘Ask to be shown’ but ‘Ask and truth will show itself’………????

This is great! What else can it be? It has to be that. Thank you for unscrambling that one.

What is happening now is that there is less resistance to looking than there was. And when directed, when looking happens, it is apparent that nothing has changed, the awareness is always experiencing -- whether looking is going on or not.

Thank you Trisha!! This is great stuff!

Lisa

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

What is this ‘I’

The conglomeration of thoughts?

The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?


Please LOOK and investigate and let me know what is found.

When there is no thought, where are 'you'?

Is there somebody doing noticing?
No! It's that conglomeration of thoughts again.

As you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self or 'I' moving the body around. Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc. Is there a WHO living your life? Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, including an 'I' seeming to live your life? Big difference. Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body."

What is this ‘I’ that might notice next, if any 'I' is only manufactured?
It is the absence of " I «

So the absence of ‘I’ is a something that can do noticing?

When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.”

Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘I’ within the “I” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of an 'I'?

What do we call that? It doesn't exist, but it is noticing.

You are so tricky!!!!

How can something that doesn’t exist be an it?
And how can it do noticing?
Please describe in Direct Experience, seeing, hearing, touching, smelling or tasting.

AND there is no "I", just an assemblage of thoughts.

OK, so the ‘I’ does not exist, but instead you are creating something, that does exist?
Calling it wild names like assemblage or conglomerate of thoughts?

But do thoughts exist?



Please LOOK and investigate deeply here.




Looking forward to your findings

Trisha

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

How are you doing?

No hurry though…..

Take all time you need



Trisha

[ElleBee]

Hi Trisha!

I

The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?

It's not continuous. It's the effort to make it look continuous that is continuous (and so the story seems continuous). Constant effort, constant thoughts that are IMPORTANT to do do, do things. And not look. That's what happens.

As you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self or 'I' moving the body around. Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc. Is there a WHO living your life? Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, including an 'I' seeming to live your life? Big difference. Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body."

There's NEVER anyONE doing the moving. It's a constant barrage of disjointed thoughts. In quiet moments there is recognition that these thoughts just jerk around attention -- look here, look there, listen to this, listen to that, think about this, think about that. And that part is kind of funny, seeing it that way.

So the absence of ‘I’ is a something that can do noticing?

No, that doesn't sound right. Nobody is noticing but there is noticing?

When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.”

Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘I’ within the “I” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of an 'I'?

There's the habit of "I". It's a lazy habit, and easy out. A convenient label for the thoughts. And then the label is assumed to be true.

How can something that doesn’t exist be an it?
And how can it do noticing?
Please describe in Direct Experience, seeing, hearing, touching, smelling or tasting.

The words are seen on this screen. The TV is heard in the background. The fingertips touching the keys on the keyboard. It's just there, moving and changing. Nobody is actually there to do anything, just like thoughts popping in for commentary.

Like the world doesn't work anything like I have assumed.

Lisa

[TeeKa112]

Hi Lisa,

I am traveling and having problems with internet

Tonight I will come back to you
I am sorry

Meanwhile it is very good when you can go through our dialogues
You might see things differently now

Talk to you soon

Trisha