Reading “Liberation Unleashed” - had some questions

[BarBarryN]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the recap. These are good reminders of where I've been. Looking a lot these last few days. There are moments of open space where there is no I thought and then times where it is back to the I thoughts.

So I'm going to ask you now - who or what is Barry?

Barry is just a thought yet this hasn't bought the "realization" I thought it would.

A feeling of being a liar or sham come. Thoughts like "it hasn't been seen". These are just thoughts / experiences.
Even outside of this body, from the reach of the I thought, my friends and family would have a different version of Barry than this mind would. This is true yet something is still coloring this moment with "I".

Thoughts like a past memory appears. The thoughts themselves are not me, that is seen, but what they reference... I still have a strong connection to. If "I' had never been more than a thought.. ever... than the thoughts are referencing other thoughts. Thoughts just talking to thoughts. Yet even though if this is true doesn't bring any sort of "realization".

There is an expectation. This is seen. There are concerns that this is just a trick of the mind. Again just a thought.

Looking for Barry. Frustration comes. Feelings of wasting time. All perceived. Still cannot find Barry. Memory comes -- I thought comes from the memory. Memory though just comes and goes. Just like the sound of a car outside. No I in the car so why is there an I in the memory? Conditioning? More looking required.

What other aspects of 'Barryness' need to be looked at?

I think these memories. Again this frustration comes. A feeling like I'm so far away from "the goal".
There are definite wants appearing now. Wanting to be liberated. Wanting to be a good "pupil". Wanting the time you use with me to not be a waste. These too are experiences. Feel like getting to a rocky core. Agitation though when not watched it departs quickly.

a few days ago you said:

confusion can be a good thing here. It can mean that you are finding that experience doesn't match the (possibly unconscious) expectations.

Definitely feeling that now.

Are there any other practices that should be done to "cement" this in place? Looking for that glimpse.

As always, thank you for your guidance and patience. Frustration strong in this post.

Thank you for being my guide.

Barry

[Turnip]

Hi there

Thanks for your openness and honesty - that's what is needed for clear seeing. It's not 'honesty vs dishonesty' as in deliberate lying, it's an honesty that notices that 'Oh, I'm trying to see what I expected to see, not what is really right in front of me'. All there is is this, just this. Anything else that 'you' are looking for is an expectation, idea, fantasy. Of course looking for 'Barry' will be frustrating as 'Barry' isn't there so it's time to let go of that hunt and just notice what is here right now.

I suggest that you go for a walk in nature. Feel that aliveness in your own experience and see if it's any different to what is around you. Feel that open spaciousness in which everything just is.

Let's chat again soon Barry.

With love

Tim

[BarBarryN]

Hi Tim,

Thank you for the recommendation. I had the realization that when looking, I am unable to discern the looking from the "I" looking. With other sensations, such as typing I can see the typing and then moments later the I comes to dictate, read back what is typed. Same with other senses. Tasting occurs and then the I dictating the tasting, touch, smell, etc. This is seen.

But with the looking, unable to see that gap between the looking and the "I" thought.

As I type this I see that isn't' 100% true.

Externally, outside the body, looking does happen-- looking at monitor, looking at pens, and coffee mug, but when I report back the I is there. When I look inside though, to see where the source is, the I in the looking is inseparable at this current moment. Though as I type this out I wonder how do I know this? Can this I then also be viewed? Can just pure looking see the "I" that is looking?

Thanks for all your guidance. Truly appreciate you.

Barry

[Turnip]

HI Barry

Lots to look at from both your last posts.

Barry is just a thought yet this hasn't bought the "realization" I thought it would.

Can you tell me what you thought 'realisation' might be like?

A feeling of being a liar or sham come. Thoughts like "it hasn't been seen". These are just thoughts / experiences.

Thoughts like this are very common. As you have seen, you have no control over thoughts. We will do an exercise later looking at the nature of thoughts.

Even outside of this body, from the reach of the I thought, my friends and family would have a different version of Barry than this mind would.

Yes, a good observation.

This is true yet something is still coloring this moment with "I".

Why does 'something' have to be doing the colouring? You've seen that thoughts arise spontaneously. It's normal for the 'I' thought to arise even in people who have been 'awake' for many years. That doesn't mean there's a separate controlling self anywhere!

Thoughts like a past memory appears. The thoughts themselves are not me, that is seen, but what they reference... I still have a strong connection to. If "I' had never been more than a thought.. ever... than the thoughts are referencing other thoughts. Thoughts just talking to thoughts. Yet even though if this is true doesn't bring any sort of "realization".

'Realisation' can be very ordinary. Just a kind of 'Oh, is that all?'. Seeing 'no self' is just a step along the pathless path, albeit an essential one. Having said that, there is usually a 'shift of some sort, a feeling of lightness and openness.

OK, here's an exercise to look at the reality of thoughts. Close your eyes and imagine an apple sitting in your hand. See in your thoughts the vibrant colours of the apple skin, feel its weight and solidity in your imagination, see if you can conjure up the smell, the feel and temperature of the skin against your hand. Really do this as convincingly as you can and then open your eyes and try to take a bite from it! If you have one handy, contrast this with the experience of a 'real apple'. The difference between a thought and something real should be pretty obvious.

Please report your experience with this exercise.

Externally, outside the body, looking does happen-- looking at monitor, looking at pens, and coffee mug, but when I report back the I is there. When I look inside though, to see where the source is, the I in the looking is inseparable at this current moment. Though as I type this out I wonder how do I know this? Can this I then also be viewed? Can just pure looking see the "I" that is looking?

This is all getting too complicated and effortful. With effort can come a contraction of the horizons, tension and a getting caught up in streams of thought. Please can you do that 'nature walk' that I suggested in the last post. Clearly I don't know your situation, you may not live near 'nature' or may have a disability that prevents you doing this in which case you'll have to find 'aliveness' to look at in what is around you. What this is aiming to do is to get a sense of that unifying energy, 'awareness', 'oneness', 'aliveness' or whatever word is best for you. If you find this difficult, you may find one of Ilona's videos helpful to get into the right space. eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYEI6woqj8I&t=817s
Please report back in detail.

Sorry, lots of work for you there.

With love

Tim

[BarBarryN]

Hi Tim,
Hope this message finds you well.
I took some time with this.

Code: Select all

Can you tell me what you thought 'realisation' might be like?

A change in perspective / a feeling of lightness.

Why does 'something' have to be doing the colouring? You've seen that thoughts arise spontaneously. It's normal for the 'I' thought to arise even in people who have been 'awake' for many years. That doesn't mean there's a separate controlling self anywhere!

Language may be failing me here. I don't know what else to call it. I have had moments where "something" happens. I've felt like the moment was being built in front of me. Every moment was a complete surprise. Right now everything feels like autopilot. Everything taken for granted. Expecting this realization to be that moment of complete surprise. Expectations I suppose.

OK, here's an exercise to look at the reality of thoughts. Close your eyes and imagine an apple sitting in your hand. See in your thoughts the vibrant colours of the apple skin, feel its weight and solidity in your imagination, see if you can conjure up the smell, the feel and temperature of the skin against your hand. Really do this as convincingly as you can and then open your eyes and try to take a bite from it! If you have one handy, contrast this with the experience of a 'real apple'. The difference between a thought and something real should be pretty obvious.

My mind told me it could do this! haha. Not even close to the real experience (which I did have an apple handy). My mind tried to replay memories of eating an apple and it created WANTING. Didn't even want an apple until I tried to conjure one in my mind. There were a lot of aspects that the mind didn't even consider like how messy they can be and sticky and how the skin can stick in between your teeth.

Please can you do that 'nature walk' that I suggested in the last post.

Yes I am blessed to both have the ability and live in a place where I can do this. I take my dog for a walk daily so my first trip was around the block but then one evening I went into our local forest... a place I had not been to for many years. My mind was very active in that walk - I have been constantly thinking about the 'I' and where it is. But after sitting on a bench and after several breaths my mind quieted and I took the forest in. I don't think I quite felt a 'oneness' with the forest but I saw a 'oneness' each tree has within the forest. I felt removed from them, a visitor in their world though I can understand that getting out in nature, after spending days in front of computer monitors could be very beneficial. I live by the coast and will be taking a beach stroll soon and report back in.

If you find this difficult, you may find one of Ilona's videos helpful to get into the right space.

This was very nice. Very calming. I rarely talk to my body, at least not consciously. The part to ask the heart: "heart please share your wisdom with me" was foreign to me but warmth grew in my chest then. It was also nice to "allow" everything that wanted to come up come. i think I spend a lot of my day pushing thoughts away.

Thank you

Barry

[Turnip]

Hi Barry

Thanks for sharing your investigation. I hope you're enjoying this. There seems to be a lightness in what you've written this time and less frustration.

Language may be failing me here. I don't know what else to call it. I have had moments where "something" happens. I've felt like the moment was being built in front of me. Every moment was a complete surprise. Right now everything feels like autopilot. Everything taken for granted. Expecting this realization to be that moment of complete surprise. Expectations I suppose.

Sweet. Language is so limited in this area - we can only point.

I like your suggestion of that walk along the beach. Keep gently looking at each moment as it arises. Watch the movement of the waves and feel the breeze on your skin. Ask the mind how it is and be there for anything it expresses. Ask the heart if it is peaceful and see if that warmth in the chest arises again. See if life continues to surprise you at times. This is the level of inquiry needed now.

I look forward to hearing back when you are ready.

With love

Tim

[BarBarryN]

Hi Tim,
I hope you're doing well.
I'm sorry I haven't been very active this last week or two-- Life has been very busy preparing for a two week trip out of state. I'm leaving today and will be spending my time in several of our National Parks-- great opportunity to be one with nature-- just as you recommended.

I'm continuing to watch Ilona's videos as well as finishing her book that led me here, Liberation Unleashed.

I look forward picking up our conversation soon.

Much gratitude,
Barry

[Turnip]

Hi Barry

Thanks, all is well here.

It's great to hear from you. Have a wonderful holiday. It sounds as if you'll be in a great position to experience that oneness with everything that this apparent search is all about. See you when you're back and we can see what you've found.

With love

Tim

[Turnip]

Hey Barry!

You back now? Ready to go again? Hope you had a great trip.

With love

tim

[BarBarryN]

Hi Tim,
Just checking in. Thanks again for the zoom call last weekend. Greatly appreciated and great help.

I've been reminding myself throughout the day to check in and do some focus practicing. It's almost like I am a very basic machine... just 1 and 0 or on and off -- sensation or no sensation.

Looking back through the posts I'm add descriptors-- things like fingers on the keys but now, if I close my eyes it's just sensation or no sensation. Same with food, taste or no taste. It isn't until the mind comes and labels - this is a keyboard this is a finger, this is a banana this is a chip. There are different sensations of course but still all sensations. Sound being different than touch or taste. If I close my eyes, just appearing . Taste appearing, than receding, thought appearing and then receding, touch appearing and then receding, etc.

It's actually quite relaxing not needing to bring the mind into this process of labeling. I will continue this practice.

Also searching for the reasoning why I'm searching for this freedom from illusion -- checking in the with the mind, the heart, and the body. So far all pretty quiet. I am finding my mind wrapped up in "time" a lot. Time moving quickly or slowly or running out of time. The mind seems to have an agenda. Which is some fear there... or the inklings of fear. Fear of missing out on something or fear that its too late maybe. But I'm also not sure how much I can "trust" this mind either. I'm searching for a reason and it want's to serve the reason up. I will continue checking in on this as well.

Thanks again for all your help!

Barry

[Turnip]

Hi Barry

It was great to meet you too and to share with you on Zoom.

Looking back through the posts I'm add descriptors-- things like fingers on the keys but now, if I close my eyes it's just sensation or no sensation. Same with food, taste or no taste. It isn't until the mind comes and labels - this is a keyboard this is a finger, this is a banana this is a chip. There are different sensations of course but still all sensations. Sound being different than touch or taste. If I close my eyes, just appearing . Taste appearing, than receding, thought appearing and then receding, touch appearing and then receding, etc.

Great investigation.

It's actually quite relaxing not needing to bring the mind into this process of labeling. I will continue this practice.

This place of relaxation, of sensation, sound, thought appearing and receding. Is it separate from anything else? In fact, is there anything else real at all? Look... :)

So far all pretty quiet. I am finding my mind wrapped up in "time" a lot. Time moving quickly or slowly or running out of time. The mind seems to have an agenda. Which is some fear there... or the inklings of fear. Fear of missing out on something or fear that its too late maybe. But I'm also not sure how much I can "trust" this mind either. I'm searching for a reason and it want's to serve the reason up. I will continue checking in on this as well.

Time, fear of missing out, trust, reason. All aspects of 'mind' and separation and in many ways the opposite pole to what you've discovered above.
Can a sensation arise without the so-called mind labelling it? You've already answered that. Keep doing those 'deep looking' questions to the mind, heart and body and see if you can find the fear. Then ask the fear to step aside and see what it's protecting.

Looking forward to your next report!

Tim :)

[BarBarryN]

Hi Tim.
Hope you are doing well and had a safe Guy Fawkes day.

After our Skype call I went and took a walk in a park. I noticed that nothing was missing, nothing out of place and I kept thinking that nothing is "ending". Even the dead leaves falling didn't have an end. They would be swept off or carried down a stream and decay and turn into dirt and so on and so on. All just phases.

This weekend my mind was quiet, there seems to be some space. A thought comes or a feeling and I can watch it like never before. It feels less personal like seeing a tree in nature. Some sensations as if I'm radiating when I sit quietly and focus attention on the body. Just this pulsating energy. Even now typing I feel it clearly.

I know I experienced something on our call-- was moved to tears but more of a knee jerk reaction out of fear, I think.
I still feel very much like Barry and again when I look it's I identify with that which is looking.

Your comment, "looking just happens" is what jarred me. But still the question is why do I identify with that looking, even if it does just happen (which I now see).

Thank you for your wisdom and grace

Barry

[Turnip]

Hi Barry

Thanks for your beautiful post. It sounds as if life is more spacious and is showing you more of its wonderful mysteries.

I still feel very much like Barry and again when I look it's I identify with that which is looking.

Well the story of 'Barry in the World, November edition' continues and the story will continue episode by episode until the end of the body-mind. It's good to know which character you're playing!

But still the question is why do I identify with that looking, even if it does just happen (which I now see).

So Barry, the main actor, doesn't write his own script just as the trees don't decide which leaf falls next or whether to grow sideways instead of straight up. Are you separate from the other life around you, from that process of endless recycling and refashioning of energy? Are you not just an expression of life like a tree or a river? Sure 'identification' arises - look at how that is just the content of thought as is the ‘believing’ of the thought. Sure 'questions arise' - more thoughts. The contents of thoughts are part of the illusion. Remember the example of a hand on a table - just an impersonal sensation happening until thought content arises to say 'this is my hand on the cold hard table'.

Is it OK not to understand? Is it OK for this to be just as it is?

With love

Tim

[BarBarryN]

Hello Tim,
Thank you for the email this morning.
I could tell that the poster, on the thread you suppled, is much closer to the truth than I and it sounds like they've already found what I am searching for.

That was this morning and then just thirty or so minutes ago I had a very scary experience. Or at least scary at the time.

Since our last meeting I've been putting my thoughts to a "test". Seeing if there were any thoughts or actions I can control and have come to the resounding conclusion that no, there are no thoughts or feelings or actions I can control. Which I already discovered but still wanted to confirm / tread on old ground in case I "missed" something. So all was fine but the repercussions of this realization manifested about thirty minutes ago.

It was like kicking the whole foundation off a house-- a very weak foundation made of twigs.

It was this trail of thoughts (or something similar):

• Okay if I can't control any thought (or feeling) than I can't control when or what I want to eat.

• I can't control what I want to say or when I say it.

• I can't control x, y, z.

This immense fear rose in me, a panic. It wasn't due to not being in control though, or at least not fully the reason. And now typing this out I can't express what the fear really was about. But it felt like I was standing at an edge and one more step and I'd be gone.

It was like I was about to leave my shell and scurry off in search of a new shell but I knew there wasn't another shell out there and the shell I'd leave wouldn't be there to go back to. So silly typing it out.

One more step and I'd be crazy like I could literally go insane or die.

And I felt so lonely. Very, very lonely in that moment.

And then I just walked myself off that ledge and back into my shell (that I'm certain is not even there!)
I just said we can stop we don't have to go further. And even then I knew how ridiculous it was-- I recognized it was just a thought talking to a thought that I had no control over. But it worked and the fear subsided.

The poster of that link you sent me said they were just laughing. Laughing, laughing, laughing. I didn't find anything funny about this at all. I want to. I really, really want to just laugh at all this.



There is no fear writing this now. Everything is fine but it felt like there was a good turn on a jar lid and the lid is just sitting there. And I'm okay with that right now. Most likely I'll go to that ledge again... when I regain some courage but man, I was not prepared to feel so lonely. It feels like death in there.

Again, want to reiterate I feel fine... It's hard to convey these emotions but reading back through I don't want to cause you any alarm with this talk of death and loneliness haha. I am going to take my dog for a walk in the neighborhood and look at some leaves ;)

P.S. I'm happy to see this forum running quickly this morning... it's almost as if it knows I needed to write to you :)

Sending love!

Barry

[Turnip]

Hi Barry

I could tell that the poster, on the thread you supplied, is much closer to the truth than I and it sounds like they've already found what I am searching for.

You're never going to find someone else's truth. In fact there isn't really a 'truth'. Also, how do you know you're not going to have a great laugh soon?

Do you remember we talked about that fear? Fear itself is just a mechanism, a sensation and is itself not to be feared. Often it's associated with particular parts of the body like a tightness in the chest or clenched jaw. Look at the fear and all its components and just allow it to be there. Remember I used the analogy of a faithful dog barking at you and trying very hard to stop you looking behind a door where something that it says is scary is lurking...? Invite it closer, thank it for what it's trying to do for you. I'm afraid the original Ghostbusters are no longer available and when you're ready, the next bit is up to you. ;-)

I'm just going to shut up now. I'm sending you love and solidarity and am wondering what might come next.

Love

Tim