Rio's corner

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

Sorry, for the late reply, was having trouble with the last 2 questions. Needed more time to redo them a few times.

No worries, you can take as much time as you need…just drop me a note letting me know that you need extra time…that way I am in the loop.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The label/word 'body' refers to the image (AE of color) and all AE of sensations.

The LABEL/WORD ‘body’ refers to AE of thought.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The actual experience of the body is AE of sensations and AE of color.

The AE of ‘body’ is thought, and only is ever thought.

Thought points to colour and labels it ‘body’.
Thought points to sensation and labels it ‘body’.

However do the colours or sensations suggest in any way that they are a body, or is it thought that suggests that colour and sensations are something called a ‘body’?

The label ‘body’ is AE of thought and not AE of a body
Sensation labelled ‘body’ is AE of sensation and not AE of a body
Colour labelled ‘body’ is AE of colour and not AE of a body
Sound labelled ‘body’ is AE of sound and not AE of a body
Smell labelled ‘body’ is AE of smell and not AE of a body
Taste labelled ‘body’ is AE of taste and not AE of a body
Thoughts about a body (the content of the thought) are AE of thought and not AE of a body.

So label (thought) + sensation + colour + sound + smell + taste + thoughts about body are actual experience (known), however is a body actually known? Can an actual body be found as actual experience?

Sit quietly and comfortably in a chair. Take in a couple of breaths to settle the dust, then look at the ‘body’. We are only using AE of colour for this exercise.

Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’?
Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’?
Could a dividing line be found anywhere between any ‘thing’, or is it all a mental construct? Is it simply thought dividing that which is seamless and whole into ‘objects’?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

However do the colours or sensations suggest in any way that they are a body, or is it thought that suggests that colour and sensations are something called a ‘body’?

AE of color does not suggest anything, nor does the AE of sensations suggest anything.
Thought labels them as 'body'.

So label (thought) + sensation + colour + sound + smell + taste + thoughts about body are actual experience (known), however is a body actually known? Can an actual body be found as actual experience?

'body' is simply a concept created/mad up by thought. In actual experience there is no thing as a body. Body is not actually experienced/known. What is known is just sensation, color, sound, smell, taste and thoughts suggesting that there is a body.

Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’?

Cannot find any dividing line within the AE of color between color labelled 'body', and color labelled 'chair'. Just contrast in colors.

Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?

Cannot find any dividing line within the AE of color between color labelled 'floor', and color labelled 'chair'. Just contrast in colors.

Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’?

Cannot find any dividing line within the AE of color between color labelled 'floor', and color labelled 'wall'. Just contrast in colors. The wall itself has a few shades of colors in it, however thought takes it to be one whole in this case.

Could a dividing line be found anywhere between any ‘thing’, or is it all a mental construct? Is it simply thought dividing that which is seamless and whole into ‘objects’?

A dividing line could not be found between any 'things'. It is all a mental construct. It is simply thought dividing that which is seamless and whole into 'objects'.

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

So label (thought) + sensation + colour + sound + smell + taste + thoughts about body are actual experience (known), however

'body' is simply a concept created/mad up by thought. In actual experience there is no thing as a body. Body is not actually experienced/known. What is known is just sensation, color, sound, smell, taste and thoughts suggesting that there is a body.

So with this in mind, does the body hear, see, feel, taste, smell or think?

[

quote]Could a dividing line be found anywhere between any ‘thing’, or is it all a mental construct? Is it simply thought dividing that which is seamless and whole into ‘objects’?

A dividing line could not be found between any 'things'. It is all a mental construct. It is simply thought dividing that which is seamless and whole into 'objects'.[/quote]

Yes! :) It’s like this doodle below. It looks as though there are a lot of separate things.



Life seems to be a gigantic soup of experience that is grouped, categorised and labelled as things. There seems to be a ‘me’ that is ‘here’ that is experiencing things that are ‘out there’. And all those things ‘out there’ are all individual separate things.

None of it is separated except through thought because all of the images present are just one big canvas. Sounds overlap and intrude on each other, and there is a thought that says “I can separate bird song from car horns. Look! See? I've just named them!” But what is actually appearing is sound, with perhaps an image of a ‘bird’ and an image of a ‘car’, and thoughts ABOUT sound appearing as a bird and car!

And thought appears saying “I can separate a cat from a book. See, I’ve just named them!” But what is actually appearing is colour and thoughts ABOUT colour appearing as shapes/images labelled ‘cat’ and ‘book’.

‘Things’ seemingly appear and there are never not things, but have a LOOK to see what is actually appearing.

What separates things? What makes up the borders? Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us? If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

The next time you are watching television, look at the screen and see whether you can pluck an object from the scene. Are there objects existing inside the screen or is the image a seamless whole? What is it that makes it seem as though there are separate objects in the picture? Are they truly separated?


Okay….continuing on with looking at the idea of a body…here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

So with this in mind, does the body hear, see, feel, taste, smell or think?

The body does not see, feel, taste, smell or think. There is just awareness of sight, feelings, taste, smell and thoughts.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No connection between the image in the mirror and the sensations.
Just thoughts suggesting that there is a connection.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No connection between the felt sensation and the image of movement in the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

Without thoughts there is No connection between the felt sensation and the direct image of movement.
just thoughts suggesting that they are connected.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

It suggests no such thing

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?

it does not suggest anything

Or are there only colours and shapes?

there are only colors and shapes

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

There is no knowledge of any parts missing. Only thoughts suggesting not to worry and that it's all there :)

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

Just sensations. No sign of body when all thoughts and images are ignored.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

just sensations and no 'body walking'

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

'walking' is a label/AE of thought for the felt sensations. There is no actual experience of 'walking'.

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

just thoughts about 'walking'

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

thing called 'body' is not found, just thoughts about a 'body' at face value.

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

thing called 'walking' cannot be found, just thoughts about it.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Sensations are in it's own dimension different from that of color. There is no room in the dimension of sensations.
The world/space of sensations in which sensations arise is very different from the world of color. Thought somehow connects the two and suggests that sensations are also arsing in the same world of color.
But sensations appear without any location and are not localized in space.

thanks
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

thing called 'body' is not found, just thoughts about a 'body' at face value.

If all that was arising was the face value thoughts about a body….then there wouldn’t be a problem. However, there is more than just face value thoughts going on, there is an underlying inference that implies that there is a body and that you reside in a body. This is shown with your answer to the question below. There is an inference that you reside INSIDE a body with your own thoughts and sensations and that anything OUTSIDE of your body is something other. Become aware of these inferences…they are not easy to spot until you LOOK carefully.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Sensations are in it's own dimension different from that of color. There is no room in the dimension of sensations.

The world/space of sensations in which sensations arise is very different from the world of color. Thought somehow connects the two and suggests that sensations are also arsing in the same world of color.
But sensations appear without any location and are not localized in space.

So perhaps you need to go back to the first body exercise I gave you and check to see if there is an inside of a body and an outside of a body? If no actual body can be found as actual experience, then where is the dividing line between sensation and colour? Have a look to see if you can find an ‘inside world’ that is separated by a division of some sort, from the so called ‘outside world’ (ie colour). If there is a division, describe it to me in precise detail please.

Where in the body do you reside in order for you to determine that there is an inner world of sensation which is separate from the outer world of colour? Let's have a look with the following experiment.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Okay...and let's try another experiment.

Sit quietly somewhere where you won't be disturbed.
Take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and then close your eyes.

When closing the eyes, notice there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is simply AE of colour labelled ‘black’?

Now open the eyes, what is the difference between colour labelled black and the other colours seen when ‘eyes are opened’? Is there are dividing line between the colours? Does seeing disappear when ‘eyes are closed’, or what is seen is simply AE of colour labelled ‘black’? If no dividing line can be found, is there an inner experience and an outer experience?


Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

I can't thank you enough for these brilliant pointers :)

With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is simply AE of colour labelled ‘black’?

Yes, it is simply AE of color labelled 'black'.

Now open the eyes, what is the difference between colour labelled black and the other colours seen when ‘eyes are opened’?

There is no difference. Just AE of color.

Is there are dividing line between the colours?

There is no dividing line between colors

Does seeing disappear when ‘eyes are closed’, or what is seen is simply AE of colour labelled ‘black’?

Seeing is ON, eyes closed or open.

If no dividing line can be found, is there an inner experience and an outer experience?

There is no dividing line. There is just experience, inner/outer distinction does not apply.


The following exercise were simply incredible. I tried my best to explore and put that into words.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you?

I cannot pin point any location with respect to the body. I am not located inside the actual experience of color.

Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in.

I am not located inside the body or in any part of the body. I feel disconnected from the body Just like the sensations and the image of the body are disconnected.

Feel how big you are, where you reside.

That is AE of sensations and big/small do not apply to them.
I cannot find myself inside AE of color nor inside AE of sensations.

Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

I kept pointing the finger towards me. Didn't get any breakthrough's, feel like I missed this pointer.
All I can say is that I was aware of this finger pointing towards me(no body in the view, just hand and finger)

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

I kept pointing the finger towards me. Didn't get any breakthrough's, feel like I missed this pointer.
All I can say is that I was aware of this finger pointing towards me(no body in the view, just hand and finger)

The whole point of the exercise was for you to point to a specific location in the body to where you feel you reside. What you did though, was side step the whole exercise by 'using' AE, instead of just doing the exercise as it was written. You are aware that colour is labelled as body, however, you still believe you are a body, so where in the body do you think you are? This is not about you not pointing back to the body...so come back down to earth ;) and meet the exercise where it is meant to be met.

So let's try a different exercise with the same end point in mind.

Find a comfortable place to sit or lie.
Relax for a few minutes - take calming breaths.

For 30 to 60 seconds each, do these exercises:
Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where the “I/me” is located.
Touch the exact location of "I/me".

Please answer the following questions by telling me what you experience and found by way of AE

What part of the body did you point to?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "I/me”?
Were you able to find and feel "I/me" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
What did you actually find? Something? Anything? Nothing?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

I will need some more time with this exercise.

thanks
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio...no worries. Thanks for letting me know.

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Took me a while to come down to earth,as there were too many spiritual concepts. Was exhausting :)

What part of the body did you point to?

I ended up pointing towards my face/eyes. I feel I am in there somewhere.

What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "I/me”?

I identified with 2 different sensations at different time while doing the exercise.
I sometimes identify with the sensation in the center of my chest other times with the area between my eyebrows.

Were you able to find and feel "I/me" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?

No. I am unable to find I/me in any concrete fashion like the other parts of the body.

What did you actually find? Something? Anything? Nothing?

I found that when I say 'I', I seem to identify more with the sensations. These sensations feel very familiar and more so than the image of the body/colors.
I think I am calling certain sensations as AM'ness/synonymous with being present.
The deep sensation in the center of my chest seems to be what I call 'I am'/AM'ness while I call the sensation felt between my eyebrows as awareness/being aware.

Even then most of my thinking/thoughts/stories are based on 'I' being the image of the body. I found this exercise very confusing.

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

Took me a while to come down to earth,as there were too many spiritual concepts. Was exhausting :)

What a lovely insight….that spiritual concepts are exhausting. Anything with a seeming spiritual connotation we find no difficulty in accepting, and yet they are as much concepts as seeming objects, including the body. Spiritual concepts are harder to see through because we hold onto them as truths and as something to aspire to. And this is how we get stuck on beliefs.

Even then most of my thinking/thoughts/stories are based on 'I' being the image of the body. I found this exercise very confusing.

Although the mind doesn’t like confusion, it is a good thing. It means something is being turned upside down and loosened. However, the belief in being a body is not something that we see through easily because there is so much ‘evidence’ that seems to put us in a body. That is why awakening is called a journey…the undoing of beliefs doesn’t happen overnight.

There is a difference between a concept and a belief. The body, for example is a concept. To say "I am the body" is a belief. Concepts are not a problem. The concept of the body is not a problem, however the belief that you are the body or reside in a body is a problem. Why? Because the belief is that the concept 'body', refers to something that is real. And how will you know if you are seeing the body as a concept or as a belief? Just see how you react when you become sick, have an injury, put on weight, lose weight…ie any body issues at all.

What part of the body did you point to?

I ended up pointing towards my face/eyes. I feel I am in there somewhere.

Okay, so let’s investigate the feeling of the sense of self around the face/eyes.

It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

So have a very deep look here as the forehead is one of the 'residences' of the SENSE of self. Or rather, the sensation that is labelled as ‘forehead’ is believed to be one of the locations of the sense of self. Close your eyes and look to see what the AE of the ‘forehead’ is. Then look at the following questions.

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?

So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?
Does the mental image suggest in any that it is a ‘forehead’?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘forehead’?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘me’?
Other than thought, can you find anything that suggests the sensation labelled as ‘forehead’ is a forehead or a me?

Furthermore, it's also believed that both 'visual sight' and 'mental images' are coming from the eyes, because when it's investigated the attention automatically goes to the sensation 'of the eyes', and at the same time the mental image 'of the eyes' can appear with it.

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.

What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "I/me”?

I identified with 2 different sensations at different time while doing the exercise.
I sometimes identify with the sensation in the center of my chest other times with the area between my eyebrows.

So we addressed the area between your eyebrows above, where we think thinking takes place. let’s look at the sensation in the centre of your chest.

What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?
How is it different from other sensations?

Were you able to find and feel "I/me" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?

No. I am unable to find I/me in any concrete fashion like the other parts of the body.

Nice looking! :) The ‘feeling’ that you are in a body isn’t going to go. Those sensations that seem like they are the body, and the sensations that seem are you in the body, have been there since day dot…but as you can see when looking…no actual “I/me” can be found.

What did you actually find? Something? Anything? Nothing?

I found that when I say 'I', I seem to identify more with the sensations. These sensations feel very familiar and more so than the image of the body/colors.
I think I am calling certain sensations as AM'ness/synonymous with being present.
The deep sensation in the center of my chest seems to be what I call 'I am'/AM'ness while I call the sensation felt between my eyebrows as awareness/being aware.

So that feeling of amness or meness is there….and we aren’t denying that, but we are saying is that we really don’t know what it is. The mind wants to qualify it with names, locations and descriptions…but it cannot be named or described; nor does it have a location. But you can see how it reinforces the idea that you are in a body! However, when you look you can see that that isn’t so.

And look again carefully to see if the awareness is something that is actually located between the eyebrows, or is it the act of seeing, thinking, hearing, tasting and feeling that all happen around the so called ‘head’ area, that seem to make it feel like that awareness comes from the head?



Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

So, can a thought come from a sensation?

No, the sensation does not suggest any thing.

Can a thought come from a mental image?

No, the mental image is just an AE of color and does not suggest anything.

Does the mental image suggest in any that it is a ‘forehead’?

No. It's the AE of thought that does the suggesting.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘forehead’?

No. It's the AE of thought that does the suggesting.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘me’?

No. It's the AE of thought that does the suggesting.

Other than thought, can you find anything that suggests the sensation labelled as ‘forehead’ is a forehead or a me?

Cannot find anything that suggests the sensation labelled as ‘forehead’ is a forehead or a me other than thought. It's all made up by thought.

Can sight come from a sensation?

No, sight cannot come from sensation.

Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

No, sight cannot come from an image.

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?

No, a mental image cannot come from sensation.

Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

A mental image cannot come from another mental image.

let’s look at the sensation in the centre of your chest.What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?

The sensation is just another unique sensation like any other sensation and does not suggest anything.
it is just another sensation and not me.

How is it different from other sensations?

It's not different from any other sensation. Thought has associated/labelled this sensation as such.

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

So, even though you looked and could not find an “I” in the body at all, identification as an “I” that resides in a body is so total that it gives one a sense of separate identity. As you can see, the separate identity is just a concept - a concept based on the individual body appearing solid, and the idea that sensations are happening within a body...and it all seems so very real!

So you had a difficult time with the last few exercises...how are you going with this and do you have any questions, anything you would like to clarify before we move on?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Even though I found the looking in the last few exercises difficult, they have been fruitful in weakening the bond between thought and other AE's. Especially between thought and the AE of sensation(Emotions).

I recently started paying attention to emotions and staying with them(being with them/observing them) instead of the reflex/habitual tendency to do something else in order to avoid them. Identifying Emotions when they arise as Sensations+Thought(story) has really been helpful.
Staying with the raw sensation of the emotion instead of paying attention to the story. And also, doing the Work and applying a turn around seems to change the flavor of the past event.

Seeing that thought just makes up so much stuff and is simply not true has started to quieten my mind. The simple question 'is it true' or 'is it absolutely true' mostly results in a 'no'.

My identification with the body is also weaning, I don't identify with it as strongly as before. I am able to look at it as a 3D light show mostly. The understanding that whatever I am, appears as a body/ae of color when observed through the mode/limited lens of sight is deepening.
However, the layers of deep unconscious identification with the body seem to run deep.

There seems to be a strong tendency to hold on to a point of view/world view until an alternate world view presents itself. Even though the thought 'I don't know anything' arises quite often, I feel there is fear in completely letting go of my current world view. There is a tendency to hold on to something for safety.

Please let me know your views about anything I stated above or anything that comes to mind. Again, greatly appreciate all your help.

thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

There seems to be a strong tendency to hold on to a point of view/world view until an alternate world view presents itself. Even though the thought 'I don't know anything' arises quite often, I feel there is fear in completely letting go of my current world view. There is a tendency to hold on to something for safety.

So look carefully…

What is it exactly that is holding onto something for safety? What is it exactly that you need to let go of? It seems you are still thinking that there is a you who decides when letting go happens or not. Where is this you that is in control of anything? Do you actually let go of anything, or are you being let go of? Do you let go of thought, or does thought let go of you? Do you let go of sensations, sounds, smells, tastes or do they let go of you….do they not arise and subside of their own volition? Is a ‘you’ needed for any phenomena to arise and subside?

Seeing through the illusion of “I” doesn’t mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity. The “I” doesn’t exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.

Kay