Looking

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John888
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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:57 pm

Have look at all the various identities you may wear at different times, some subtle, some not so.
Identities acquired through place, family e.g. a cornishman :), brother, friend; or through achievement e.g. a graduate, musician etc.

Just survey these identities within yourself and see how they show up.

What do you find?

Well, I noticed that the patterns are different but the reality of seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, tasting and thinking are the same. There are different thought patterns, so the content is different but thinking stays thinking.
There are different stories told but it are still stories. The mechanism of identification stays the same: believing the ¨I¨ thoughts.
When I am with my brother, we have things in common, so we talk about that and can laugh about certain things.
When I am with my father, we can also talk about thinks but these things are different than the things I talk about when with my brother. Also the feeling and thinking is different. With my brother there is a more relaxed attitude. With my father there can also be a relaxed attitude but there often is still some tension and a need for validation.
Yesterday I went out with some friends and I noticed the difference in interacting with them.
With one male friend I make certain jokes, with another male friend I make almost no jokes, with one female friend I make different kind of jokes. There is an adaptation of behaviour to the person with whom there is interaction.

Yesterday I spend a few hours to do inquiry. Since then I noticed a general reduction in identification. When with friends there was little identification and when there was, it was quickly seen. When laying in bed there was evaluating of the evening and then there were thoughts about the interactions and doubt came up. There was a bit identification but quickly seen clearly to be just thoughts and judgement, no owner. The conversations with my father are also more open. There is much less need to defend myself, there is almost no feeling of being attacked. Thoughts about validation are immediately investigated on the necessity of it.

Also I am really seeing the importance of this, so I wanted to emphasize it:
I guess the thing is to keep looking from direct experience and keep seeing the process of identification happening and so keep seeing that the ¨I¨ as a separate entity is an illusion until the identification completely drops away or is seen through automatically. Do you think that this understanding is correct?

Well, it's one perspective. It does have implications, in that social conditioning has lots of tentacles. :) So, by setting such a goal, ideal, it might not serve you that well, in that you might see identification as a 'failure'. Not saying you would but many do. The key (in terms of what we do here) is to have seen the nature of this 'me' abstraction. As regards how social conditioning plays out, treat it lightly. Yes, learn from it each time, and so deepen the insight, but not with any goal in mind (which brings a tension and judgement which is un-necessary).

Thanks again! Much Gratitude!

Kind regards,
John

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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:01 pm

A little addition: I downloaded the app ¨Enlightening Quotes¨. Yesterday and today when sitting in nature or when waiting I read some quotes and looked. Really inspiring and it helps to deepen the insight.

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Re: Looking

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:06 pm

When I am with my brother, we have things in common, so we talk about that and can laugh about certain things.
When I am with my father, we can also talk about thinks but these things are different than the things I talk about when with my brother. Also the feeling and thinking is different. With my brother there is a more relaxed attitude. With my father there can also be a relaxed attitude but there often is still some tension and a need for validation.
Yesterday I went out with some friends and I noticed the difference in interacting with them.
With one male friend I make certain jokes, with another male friend I make almost no jokes, with one female friend I make different kind of jokes. There is an adaptation of behaviour to the person with whom there is interaction.

Sure, and it happens effortlessly, we switch social roles appropriate to context and relationship. All fine, oils the wheels. :)

When we identify heavily, we are 'in the head'.
When we identify lightly, we can enjoy the interaction as brother, son, friend, student without needing to BE it.

Yesterday I spend a few hours to do inquiry. Since then I noticed a general reduction in identification. When with friends there was little identification and when there was, it was quickly seen. When laying in bed there was evaluating of the evening and then there were thoughts about the interactions and doubt came up. There was a bit identification but quickly seen clearly to be just thoughts and judgement, no owner. The conversations with my father are also more open. There is much less need to defend myself, there is almost no feeling of being attacked. Thoughts about validation are immediately investigated on the necessity of it.

The lack of reaction when criticised or verbally attacked is the most clear sign of not identifying. It's a lovely light feeling. You can continue to have robust conversations, but there is no 'me' to defend. That is, the character of 'me' exists as a story, so there is literally nothing to defend, and thus you can be utterly defenceless. :)

Also I am really seeing the importance of this, so I wanted to emphasize it:

Well, it's one perspective. It does have implications, in that social conditioning has lots of tentacles. :) So, by setting such a goal, ideal, it might not serve you that well, in that you might see identification as a 'failure'. Not saying you would but many do. The key (in terms of what we do here) is to have seen the nature of this 'me' abstraction. As regards how social conditioning plays out, treat it lightly. Yes, learn from it each time, and so deepen the insight, but not with any goal in mind (which brings a tension and judgement which is un-necessary).
Thanks again! Much Gratitude!

It's a pleasure.

A little addition: I downloaded the app ¨Enlightening Quotes¨. Yesterday and today when sitting in nature or when waiting I read some quotes and looked. Really inspiring and it helps to deepen the insight.

Cool Just remember that these are pointers, rather than truths; springboards, or mild shakings of the tree; to shake out a fixated assumption, let's say. It's very easy - and many do - take such statements as gospel :) and that is a great shame. They are tools only.

With 'me' as a story, is there anything a story can own, or control?

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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John888
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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:28 pm

The lack of reaction when criticised or verbally attacked is the most clear sign of not identifying. It's a lovely light feeling. You can continue to have robust conversations, but there is no 'me' to defend. That is, the character of 'me' exists as a story, so there is literally nothing to defend, and thus you can be utterly defenceless. :)

Yes it is a nice light feeling. Sometimes I just laugh at the thoughts that are arising :)
It is really freeing when there is no ¨me¨ to defend. There are no struggles when ¨me¨ is seen as a story.
Life becomes playful and joyful, more like an adventure :)

With 'me' as a story, is there anything a story can own, or control?

No, nothing can be owned or controlled. ¨me¨ is a story, ¨me¨ is a thought and thoughts can´t own anything.
Thoughts can take the form of intentions, which are often followed by actions.
But there is no control over thoughts, so there is no control over actions.

Kind regards,
John

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Re: Looking

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 pm

Hi John,

Life becomes playful and joyful, more like an adventure :)

:)

With 'me' as a story, is there anything a story can own, or control?
No, nothing can be owned or controlled. ¨me¨ is a story, ¨me¨ is a thought and thoughts can´t own anything.
Thoughts can take the form of intentions, which are often followed by actions.
But there is no control over thoughts, so there is no control over actions.

Going back to not taking statements as gospel or truths...

You have already seen that the idea of me thought to be real, was a story of me.

Now, here is a distinct line between,
- there is no control over actions AND
- there is no control over actions by a story of 'me'.

That line is either a thread or a chasm. :)

Take on there is no control over actions, step into it, see what that's like.

Take on there is no control over actions by a story of 'me', see what that's like.

Contrast the experience.


Share what comes up.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:51 am

Going back to not taking statements as gospel or truths...

Thanks for keeping me sharp.

You have already seen that the idea of me thought to be real, was a story of me.

Now, here is a distinct line between,
- there is no control over actions AND
- there is no control over actions by a story of 'me'.

That line is either a thread or a chasm. :)

Take on there is no control over actions, step into it, see what that's like.

Take on there is no control over actions by a story of 'me', see what that's like.

Contrast the experience.

Share what comes up.

The story of ¨me¨ is a mental construct an idea that the ¨I¨ thoughts (saying that there is an ¨I¨ who is experiencing) are true. The appearence of ¨I¨ thoughts is real, the story that they are the truth is not.

What I noticed:
The ¨I¨ thoughts appear after the experience, so they can not control the experience. However when the story of ¨me¨ is believed to be real, this creates the habit of defending the ¨me¨ and that results in certain actions.

There is this complex proces of experience happening. This proces consists of a genetic base, all the conditioning/habits that were formed from childhood untill now, information received from the senses. This results in certain feelings, thoughts and actions. Is there control over actions? This proces is happening by itself, decisions are made by this complex proces. Can this proces be controlled? Well this proces can change because of new information, but then again it is the proces that decides if and how it will change based on the new information. The process itself has the control. So it is not the story of ¨me¨ who has the control but the process itself.

Kind regards,
John

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Re: Looking

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:23 am

The story of ¨me¨ is a mental construct an idea that the ¨I¨ thoughts (saying that there is an ¨I¨ who is experiencing) are true. The appearence of ¨I¨ thoughts is real, the story that they are the truth is not.

What I noticed:
The ¨I¨ thoughts appear after the experience, so they can not control the experience. However when the story of ¨me¨ is believed to be real, this creates the habit of defending the ¨me¨ and that results in certain actions.

There is this complex proces of experience happening. This proces consists of a genetic base, all the conditioning/habits that were formed from childhood untill now, information received from the senses. This results in certain feelings, thoughts and actions. Is there control over actions? This proces is happening by itself, decisions are made by this complex proces. Can this proces be controlled? Well this proces can change because of new information, but then again it is the proces that decides if and how it will change based on the new information. The process itself has the control. So it is not the story of ¨me¨ who has the control but the process itself.

Ok, good. There are folk who have adopted 'no control' as a mantra, and thereby take no responsibility for actions. That's not freedom by any stretch. Not a good look. :)

Anyhow, let's move on.

You're using the word 'process' as having the control, and happening by itself.

In using that word, you're abstracting what is happening, if you like, distancing from it.
It's not me, I'm a story :D - so it must be some other mechanism, you know, genes and that. :)

Well, that's fine, but at the end of the day, it's another idea about how it is.
Rather than the idea of 'me', the void is filled with the idea of 'process'.

Now, what else could it be?

You might notice, that we rush around looking for other ideas, better ideas, that solve the puzzle of being (sometimes called 'seeking') :D

Perhaps that is the issue? How come we keep rushing around trying to solve being?

What is?

At some point, we might give up trying to solve, and where is there left to go but where we are?

Explore, play, give up.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:52 am

The emotions keep changing from between joy, happiness insecure/fear, restlessness, aversion.
There is more sensitivity to the experiences. There is however most of the time a certain calm feeling underlying all these mindstates. Yesterday I talked to someone I know but noticed that there was insecurity, the talking wasn´t spontaneous. There was more self-consciousness. Then when walking I looked at a girl and she looked at me. She kept looking at me and it was a nice feeling but there was shyness. Then I sat down and I was thinking about talking to her, but was a little nervous. Then again someone I know come to say hey, but again a little awkward, but this time more awkward because there was also the nervous feeling of talking to the girl. The girl could have heard the conversation. Then I went to talk to her, but it was clear that she lost interest. After talking to her for a few minutes she left.
There was little identification with the insecurity and with the nervousness, it is just as it is, nothing to do to make it go away. But after talking to the girl and she lost interest, even walked away, then there was the whole story of ¨me¨ which I identified with. Pretty soon I started to do inquiry and this lessened the identification. The story came back a few times even in my sleep, sometimes it was seen clear without much identification and sometimes it took inquiry to lessen the identification.

Ok, good. There are folk who have adopted 'no control' as a mantra, and thereby take no responsibility for actions. That's not freedom by any stretch. Not a good look. :)

What is in your experience a good look?

Anyhow, let's move on.

You're using the word 'process' as having the control, and happening by itself.

In using that word, you're abstracting what is happening, if you like, distancing from it.
It's not me, I'm a story :D - so it must be some other mechanism, you know, genes and that. :)

Well, that's fine, but at the end of the day, it's another idea about how it is.
Rather than the idea of 'me', the void is filled with the idea of 'process'.

Now, what else could it be?

You might notice, that we rush around looking for other ideas, better ideas, that solve the puzzle of being (sometimes called 'seeking') :D

Perhaps that is the issue? How come we keep rushing around trying to solve being?

What is?

At some point, we might give up trying to solve, and where is there left to go but where we are?

Explore, play, give up.

Well, with looking it is seen that the story of ¨me¨ is an idea. With looking it is seen that there is a process.
For example when an itch arises, there arises an unpleasant feeling, then a thought arise about scratching, then the action of scratching happens. Another example: When there is pain, an unpleasant feeling arises, then a thought arises about removing or lessen the pain, then the action of removing of lessening the pain happens. Not everything of the whole process is seen, so there is a certain believe I guess. But then do you need to see everything to see the mechanism, do you need to see every ¨I¨ thought to see that the story of ¨me¨ is an idea?

About Solving the puzzle of being. The question: ¨What am I?¨ or ¨Who am I?¨, is a thought. Who is asking this question? Another thought. Can there be only seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting, thinking. Was there ever anything else?
Without getting absorbed in the story, there is only experience. Then there is nowhere to go, but where we are because there is only now, only the present moment. Past and future are thoughts that appear in the now.

But then how to live in the world, where it is necessary to think, plan, remember? It is part of the experience, but then we are lost in the content again. Except for when there is conscious thinking, planning and remembering, then we attentionally take the action in the present moment. But who is taking the action? Nobody, the action is done. So who can be conscious of taking the action? Nobody, consciousness has arisen. Who is lost in the content? Nobody, awareness has faded. So there is nothing to do, it is happening by itself. But who is trying to do things? Nobody, just trying and thoughts about trying. Who is doing the inquiry? Nobody, the inquiry is taking place. It is only the story of ¨me¨ who makes you believe that you are doing any of this. But what then let me to do this inquiry? The process itself. There was no ¨you¨ who wanted to know the truth about this story of ¨me¨. It was the process, life, experiences itself.

So then there is nothing to do? Who is deciding to do nothing? It is life, process, experience. The story of ¨me¨ is an mental construct. There is no ¨you¨ who makes the decisions. The decisions are made. But how can certain habits change or certain things that are seen as not useful? They are changing by itself, the information that certain habits or thing are not useful, will change them automatically without anyone having to do anything, because the actions that are needed to change them will also happen automatically without anyone having to do anything. Life is living, experiences are experienced.

I hope this is helpful, just typing what is experienced.

Kind regards,
John

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Re: Looking

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:37 am

Thank you John, for your attention and willingness to explore further.
The emotions keep changing from between joy, happiness insecure/fear, restlessness, aversion.
There is more sensitivity to the experiences. There is however most of the time a certain calm feeling underlying all these mindstates. Yesterday I talked to someone I know but noticed that there was insecurity, the talking wasn´t spontaneous. There was more self-consciousness. Then when walking I looked at a girl and she looked at me. She kept looking at me and it was a nice feeling but there was shyness. Then I sat down and I was thinking about talking to her, but was a little nervous. Then again someone I know come to say hey, but again a little awkward, but this time more awkward because there was also the nervous feeling of talking to the girl. The girl could have heard the conversation. Then I went to talk to her, but it was clear that she lost interest. After talking to her for a few minutes she left.
There was little identification with the insecurity and with the nervousness, it is just as it is, nothing to do to make it go away. But after talking to the girl and she lost interest, even walked away, then there was the whole story of ¨me¨ which I identified with. Pretty soon I started to do inquiry and this lessened the identification. The story came back a few times even in my sleep, sometimes it was seen clear without much identification and sometimes it took inquiry to lessen the identification.

John, we all have certain unresolved emotional 'issues' which are triggered by circumstances, and we re-act. We re-act to avoid the pain, we get angry at the other, blame them, suppress it, etc, etc.

These 'issues' are largely untouched by seeing that you have been living the life as 'you', an embodied narrative.

I say 'largely' because this seeing does weaken the narrative and gives us a way in to start unpicking and unravelling.

Being outside the frame of LU (Liberation Unleashed), we will explore it in passing. :) Lots of folk come here with the expectation that seeing (the fiction of 'me') will eradicate this hurt, or alleviate it. It won't. What changes is that it's not 'your' hurt anymore. The hurt is woven into the narrative of 'me'. Hence it changes when you're not playing the lead. But like a toy train on a track, it'll come around and around, each time, giving you the opportunity to see what it is and isn't.

So, you will be shy again in a short while. As you did this time, pierce directly into the heart of the narrative, and the pattern will start to unravel.



Ok, good. There are folk who have adopted 'no control' as a mantra, and thereby take no responsibility for actions. That's not freedom by any stretch. Not a good look. :)
What is in your experience a good look?

Seeing with or without concepts.

Well, with looking it is seen that the story of ¨me¨ is an idea. With looking it is seen that there is a process.
For example when an itch arises, there arises an unpleasant feeling, then a thought arise about scratching, then the action of scratching happens. Another example: When there is pain, an unpleasant feeling arises, then a thought arises about removing or lessen the pain, then the action of removing of lessening the pain happens. Not everything of the whole process is seen, so there is a certain believe I guess. But then do you need to see everything to see the mechanism, do you need to see every ¨I¨ thought to see that the story of ¨me¨ is an idea?

About Solving the puzzle of being. The question: ¨What am I?¨ or ¨Who am I?¨, is a thought. Who is asking this question? Another thought. Can there be only seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting, thinking. Was there ever anything else?
Without getting absorbed in the story, there is only experience. Then there is nowhere to go, but where we are because there is only now, only the present moment. Past and future are thoughts that appear in the now.

But then how to live in the world, where it is necessary to think, plan, remember? It is part of the experience, but then we are lost in the content again. Except for when there is conscious thinking, planning and remembering, then we attentionally take the action in the present moment. But who is taking the action? Nobody, the action is done. So who can be conscious of taking the action? Nobody, consciousness has arisen. Who is lost in the content? Nobody, awareness has faded. So there is nothing to do, it is happening by itself. But who is trying to do things? Nobody, just trying and thoughts about trying. Who is doing the inquiry? Nobody, the inquiry is taking place. It is only the story of ¨me¨ who makes you believe that you are doing any of this. But what then let me to do this inquiry? The process itself. There was no ¨you¨ who wanted to know the truth about this story of ¨me¨. It was the process, life, experiences itself.

So then there is nothing to do? Who is deciding to do nothing? It is life, process, experience. The story of ¨me¨ is an mental construct. There is no ¨you¨ who makes the decisions. The decisions are made. But how can certain habits change or certain things that are seen as not useful? They are changing by itself, the information that certain habits or thing are not useful, will change them automatically without anyone having to do anything, because the actions that are needed to change them will also happen automatically without anyone having to do anything. Life is living, experiences are experienced.

All good questions. Again, the frame of LU is to point out what you are not, or rather, that what you think you are, 'me', is made-up. But then the question comes up again, "But if I'm not this, then who, what am I?" - "Who is doing stuff if not 'me'?"

You may have noticed in your reading, that dogma fills the gaps of doubt.
You also know that human creatures have the capacity to live according to a fiction (i.e. 'me'), very effectively, effortlessly even. So living according to another fiction like 'no control', or 'life living itself', or 'no-one doing anything' is just as easy. YouTube is full of it if you want specimens. :D

There are two broad approaches: figure it out, or live it.

In living it, the living is the answer.
In figuring out, you have to wait until you find the right concept that matches life. :D

Rather than thinking who is planning, plan.

Each time a fiction, a curtain, drops away, you see a little more of what's left, what remains.

Rest your hand on a table. At some point in the next minute, raise it to eye level, hold it there a bit, and return it to the table, but pausing again on the way down.

As you do so, observe like a hawk.

Don't observe with a pre-frame such as 'to see that there is no self doing it', observe cleanly from the experience itself. Learn from observation. Observe the resting, the initiation, the movement, the pace, the precision, the pausing.

Was it random? Were you like a zombie? Did the arm shoot out uncontrollably?

Do it again, but instead of raising it straight up, put some curves in there.

See what you discover.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:53 pm

Thank you for your guidance.
Being outside the frame of LU (Liberation Unleashed), we will explore it in passing. :)

Interesting, do you think this can be helpful for me?

There are two broad approaches: figure it out, or live it.

In living it, the living is the answer.
In figuring out, you have to wait until you find the right concept that matches life. :D

Rather than thinking who is planning, plan.

Each time a fiction, a curtain, drops away, you see a little more of what's left, what remains.

Then the approach of "live it" sounds more appealing to me. Is this what you refer to as "Seeing with or without concepts"? So, looking at direct experience (which can also involve concepts)? Just looking at whatever is experienced?

Rest your hand on a table. At some point in the next minute, raise it to eye level, hold it there a bit, and return it to the table, but pausing again on the way down.

As you do so, observe like a hawk.

Don't observe with a pre-frame such as 'to see that there is no self doing it', observe cleanly from the experience itself. Learn from observation. Observe the resting, the initiation, the movement, the pace, the precision, the pausing.

Was it random? Were you like a zombie? Did the arm shoot out uncontrollably?

Do it again, but instead of raising it straight up, put some curves in there.

See what you discover.

What I noticed:

There was pressure from the resting of the hand on the table (the knowing that the pressure is coming from the hand and table touching is because I see them and label them). Then there was the intention to raise the hand. The pressure became less and less untill the hand was entirely in the air. The palm of the hand and the vingers felt a little bit cold during the raising of the hand to eye level. On the back of my hand there was the feeling of wind. When raised to eye level the hand movement stopped. There was still a cold feeling on the palm of the hands and the vinger. Then the hand lowered untill the pause on the way down. During this time the palm and vingers still felt cold. Then lowered till the hand slowly touched the table again. The pressure increased on the vingers and then on the palm om the hand.

I did the exercise a couple of times. The time of the hand resting on the table, the moment of initiation, the movement, the pace, the pausing were all different each time.

Was it random? Well, yes inside of the context you gave me, it was random because everytime it was different.

Were you like a zombie? No, I could stay in the context you gave me. I could follow the instructions.

Did the arm shoot out uncontrollably? No, it was paced and a controlled movement.

Do it again, but instead of raising it straight up, put some curves in there.

I did this exercise also a couple of times. As with the other exercise the time of the hand resting on the table, the moment of initiation, the movement, the pace, the pausing were all different each time. The answers of the questions are the same as the first exercise.

Kind regards,
John

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Re: Looking

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:07 pm

Interesting, do you think this can be helpful for me?

Everything in its time.

Then the approach of "live it" sounds more appealing to me. Is this what you refer to as "Seeing with or without concepts"? So, looking at direct experience (which can also involve concepts)? Just looking at whatever is experienced?

I'm not a fan of the term 'direct experience'. Just being inquisitive about perceiving.

What I noticed:
There was pressure from the resting of the hand on the table (the knowing that the pressure is coming from the hand and table touching is because I see them and label them). Then there was the intention to raise the hand. The pressure became less and less untill the hand was entirely in the air. The palm of the hand and the vingers felt a little bit cold during the raising of the hand to eye level. On the back of my hand there was the feeling of wind. When raised to eye level the hand movement stopped. There was still a cold feeling on the palm of the hands and the vinger. Then the hand lowered untill the pause on the way down. During this time the palm and vingers still felt cold. Then lowered till the hand slowly touched the table again. The pressure increased on the vingers and then on the palm om the hand.

I did the exercise a couple of times. The time of the hand resting on the table, the moment of initiation, the movement, the pace, the pausing were all different each time.

Was it random? Well, yes inside of the context you gave me, it was random because everytime it was different.

Were you like a zombie? No, I could stay in the context you gave me. I could follow the instructions.

Did the arm shoot out uncontrollably? No, it was paced and a controlled movement.

Do it again, but instead of raising it straight up, put some curves in there.

I did this exercise also a couple of times. As with the other exercise the time of the hand resting on the table, the moment of initiation, the movement, the pace, the pausing were all different each time. The answers of the questions are the same as the first exercise.

"Then there was the intention to raise the hand."

Repeat the exercise and observe especially this moment of intent.
Is that anything of a sensory, or any other, nature that you could point to and call 'intent'?

With kind thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:35 pm

"Then there was the intention to raise the hand."

Repeat the exercise and observe especially this moment of intent.
Is that anything of a sensory, or any other, nature that you could point to and call 'intent'?
Well, that was interesting. This is what I noticed: When the hand is resting on the table, there is commentary about when to raise the hand. There are even thoughts ¨And NOW raise your hand¨. But the hand just keeps resting on the table.
Then suddenly the hand raises in the air. I could not point to anything to call ¨intent¨, except maybe the thoughts about doing it.
But these thoughts had no direct influence because the hand didn´t move when there was the thought ¨NOW raise your hand¨.

Kind regards,
John

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Looking

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:59 pm

"Then there was the intention to raise the hand."

Repeat the exercise and observe especially this moment of intent.
Is that anything of a sensory, or any other, nature that you could point to and call 'intent'?
Well, that was interesting. This is what I noticed: When the hand is resting on the table, there is commentary about when to raise the hand. There are even thoughts ¨And NOW raise your hand¨. But the hand just keeps resting on the table.
Then suddenly the hand raises in the air. I could not point to anything to call ¨intent¨, except maybe the thoughts about doing it.
But these thoughts had no direct influence because the hand didn´t move when there was the thought ¨NOW raise your hand¨.

Spooky huh. :)

Unless you are an owl, can you see behind you?

Now, assuming you are not with the Russian State Circus :D - the answer will be, no.

Despite being unable to see behind you, is there a behind you?

If you are of a particular tradition, you might say 'No!' - if it can't be seen then it doesn't exist.
But then you turn around, and it can be seen.
Except behind you has now moved. :D
(I read far too much Winnie-the-Pooh)

My point is, is equating non-observability with non-existence, a good look? :)

Enjoy the day!
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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John888
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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:51 pm

My point is, is equating non-observability with non-existence, a good look? :)

No, not a good look. There are many things that human beings can´t see with there senses but that do exist.
Bacteria on the body, certain waves (Invisible light waves like infra-red and radio-waves, things in the air like pollen, black carbon, animal hairs. These things do exist but we can´t see them with only our senses, we need technology.
When we didn´t had the technology to see it, we didn´t know it existed, but that doesn´t mean that it didn´t existed at that time. So, that something is not observable doesn´t mean that it doesn´t exist.

This is what I noticed today:
When I bought a ticket for the train, there was a thought ¨Now you will put the ticket in your pocket next to your mobile. Then you will make sure that the ticket is really in your pocket¨ Then the actions happened like was described in the thought. I know that this is a habit, but this was the first time that I saw a thought about this habit before the habit manifested. Interesting.

Best wishes,
John

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John888
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Re: Looking

Postby John888 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:55 pm

As addition: It is funny that you asked that question because today I accidentally saw the documentary ¨Mysteries Of The Unseen World (2013) :)


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