Is that so?

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forgetmenot
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Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:45 pm

Hey Stello,
well, suspicious thoughts appeared.
How is it known that a thought is suspicious? ;)
Can thought alter anything or is there just another thought saying a thought was altered?
Yes Kay. That's what it is. A thought can't be altered. Not even by thought. Actually thought itself cannot do anything. It just appears and disappears. Then there might be another thought claiming it has just altered the thought before.
Thought is not aware, so it's useless as a means of knowing the truth.

Okay…so let’s look at little deeper here.
Does thought actually appear and disappear? Are there many thoughtS ...or is there just thought.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
I look at this moment, but it was already there. It's not like I look first and then nothing and then "Oh yes there's this moment appearing!" And when I stop looking the moment is still there. The moment's content changes all the time, though. I am confused.
Yes, in the time/space continuum it SEEMS things change. But have a close LOOK at this…does colour, smell, sound, thought, sensation and taste actually change? Or there are thoughts about change? Does experience actually change?
How long does the ‘now’ last
?

I can only experience now. So it's kind of everlasting.
And what exactly is the ‘now’?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
More confusion here. There is no past?!
Yes exactly! The "past" is a presently appearing, self-consistent 'conceptual story', about this now.

Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of colour.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of sound.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of taste.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of smell.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of sensation.
Notice how there is no 'confusion' in the knowing of thought.
So where is this 'confusion'?

Have a look at the second hand on a clock. It seems to be changing. But can you find 10 seconds ago in actual experience? 5 seconds? 1 second? Keep noticing that change is always only a story about some experience "prior to this". But only *this* can be found.
Even more confusion. No I cannot find 10, 5 or 1 seconds ago. It's always just now. It seems that time is just an assumption. It can't actually be experienced. But thought says it must be real.
Yes, just because the hand of a clock is going around a clock face, doesn’t actually mean that time has passed. Where would time come from and pass to!
So, yes, time is an assumption, so what are you confused about?
How could there have been another experience at all? Where has it gone to?
Those two questions are 'killing' me. It is as if it's an unsolvable riddle. AE is "time doesn't exist"
Yes! exactly! Thought says that the smell labelled ‘coffee’ wasn’t here a moment ago, but is here now. How is this known that ‘coffee’ was already known and you had coffee yesterday, therefore the smell ‘coffee’ was here yesterday?

Everything is known. There is nothing that is not known. LOOK at what is known 'right now'. There is nothing else to know. There is no past, present moment or future. There is nothing that is not already known.

Is there a dividing line between ‘knowing’ and ‘known’? In other words is there a dividing line between ‘awareness’ (knowing) and experience (known)? If not, then how can anything be unknown? How can ‘things’ come and go, when the ‘things’ are an appearance in/as THIS (experience itself). There is a story appearing about change, but does experience itself, ever change?

Experience may seem to appear as 'change'. But that doesn't mean experience is changing. Just as experience may appear as 'blue'. But that does not mean experience is blue. 'Blue' is experience, experience is not 'blue'.
(Blue is appearing/showing up as experience but experience is not blue)

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
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Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:49 pm

Hello Kay,

just a quick question about your questions: Blue questions are mandatory, regular black questions are optional for me to answer, right?
Does thought actually appear and disappear? Are there many thoughtS ...or is there just thought.
Thought content does appear and disappear, but thought doesn't. Thought is always there, even if it's empty (without content).
Yes, in the time/space continuum it SEEMS things change. But have a close LOOK at this…does colour, smell, sound, thought, sensation and taste actually change?
Colour can change from red to green, smell can change from strawberry to poo, sound can change from bass to treble, thought can change from angry to loving, sensation can change from soft to hard, taste can change from sweet to bitter. But the actual experience is always just coloursmellsoundthoughtsensationtaste.
Or there are thoughts about change?
Yes. Thoughts come in and label, so change is noticeable.
Does experience actually change?
No.
And what exactly is the ‘now’?
The now is what IS. It's what is actually experienced.
So where is this 'confusion'?
Can't find any.
So, yes, time is an assumption, so what are you confused about?
I don't know. I am not. And yet something is confused. It just seems that it isn't me, but it also seems like it is me.
How is this known that ‘coffee’ was already known and you had coffee yesterday, therefore the smell ‘coffee’ was here yesterday?
Thought claims to know it.
Is there a dividing line between ‘knowing’ and ‘known’? In other words is there a dividing line between ‘awareness’ (knowing) and experience (known)?


No.
If not, then how can anything be unknown?
It can't.
How can ‘things’ come and go, when the ‘things’ are an appearance in/as THIS (experience itself). There is a story appearing about change, but does experience itself, ever change?
No. Experience doesn't change. Yet that what is experienced changes all the time.


Best regards,
Stello

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forgetmenot
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Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:42 pm

Hey Stello,
just a quick question about your questions: Blue questions are mandatory, regular black questions are optional for me to answer, right?
Correct. Any questions not in blue are just something for you to LOOK at to clarify further or as means to confirm what you have seen but are not needed to be answered for me.
Does thought actually appear and disappear? Are there many thoughtS ...or is there just thought.
Thought content does appear and disappear, but thought doesn't. Thought is always there, even if it's empty (without content).
LOOK very carefully at this. How is it known that thoughts are different? That each thought differs from the other? The content of thought is more thought and thought in and of itself is meaningless but is an appearance in/of THIS. Thoughts, if seen as individual thoughts seemingly appear and disappear because of their assigned meaning…but when ignoring what thoughts says about thoughts…does thought itself appear and disappear?
Yes, in the time/space continuum it SEEMS things change. But have a close LOOK at this…does colour, smell, sound, thought, sensation and taste actually change?
Colour can change from red to green, smell can change from strawberry to poo, sound can change from bass to treble, thought can change from angry to loving, sensation can change from soft to hard, taste can change from sweet to bitter. But the actual experience is always just coloursmellsoundthoughtsensationtaste.
What labels colours as ‘green’, ‘red’, ‘yellow’ and even labels ‘colour’ as colour? Where does one colour end and another begin? Look carefully…are there many different colourS or just colour?
Or there are thoughts about change?
Yes. Thoughts come in and label, so change is noticeable.
THIS appears as the story of change itself, but change is about time, is there actually anything changing? (Have a look at what you found as your answer in the question above). Just because thought says that colour is now green instead of blue…what actually changed?

And where does thought end and colour begin and colour end and sound begin? Where is the dividing line that divides these from one another?
And what exactly is the ‘now’?
The now is what IS. It's what is actually experienced.
Experience cannot experience itself…it is (the) experience. There is no experience AND sound, experience AND thought, experience AND colour, experience AND sensation, experience AND smell, experience AND taste. There is no AND. Thoughtsmellsoundcoloursensationcolour = experience...they are one and the same thing.
So, yes, time is an assumption, so what are you confused about?
I don't know. I am not. And yet something is confused. It just seems that it isn't me, but it also seems like it is me.
Yes, but said you were confused. What was it about the question about the clock exercise that confused you?


How is this known that ‘coffee’ was already known and you had coffee yesterday, therefore the smell ‘coffee’ was here yesterday?

Thought claims to know it.


There is an 'awareness' of thought that appears saying that the smell ‘coffee’ was here yesterday…but thought can’t claim anything in and of itself, but just because thought say so...does that make the thought true?

How can ‘things’ come and go, when the ‘things’ are an appearance in/as THIS (experience itself). There is a story appearing about change, but does experience itself, ever change?
No. Experience doesn't change. Yet that what is experienced changes all the time.
Where is the ‘experiencer’ of experience? Describe it to me. For something to experience something means there must be two. An experiencer and the experience. Where is the dividing line between experiencer and experience?

Look at this picture.

Image

Thought says that there are a variety of colourS appearing here and labels them accordingly. Thought labels areas called ‘you’, yellow, orange and green and also calls these colours your body. Thought also says that the other colours are objects, and the light brown areas are animals that have their own consciousness.

When you ignore all the labels given to all these so-called many COLOURS, are there many colours or just colour? And if it is only colour and not colourS…what exactly is it that is changing?

Thought also says that there is something behind the door. How is it known that there is something behind the door?

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
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Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 am

Hello Kay,
LOOK very carefully at this. How is it known that thoughts are different?
Thought says so and I believe it, because if I don't believe my thoughts or if I question them, fear arises and the thought that I won't be able to function in this world anymore.
That each thought differs from the other?
Thought says so.
The content of thought is more thought and thought in and of itself is meaningless but is an appearance in/of THIS. Thoughts, if seen as individual thoughts seemingly appear and disappear because of their assigned meaning…but when ignoring what thoughts says about thoughts…does thought itself appear and disappear?
No. When I ignore what thought says about thoughts, then thought does not appear and disappear.
It seems that I am not able to ignore every thought that comes up. Some thoughts are easy to ignore, while others appear to be way too essential to be ignored. Those are the ones that are giving me a hard time to LOOK.

What labels colours as ‘green’, ‘red’, ‘yellow’ and even labels ‘colour’ as colour?
Thought does.
Where does one colour end and another begin?
I don't understand this question.
Look carefully…are there many different colourS or just colour?
Just colour is experienced. Thought says there's different colours.
THIS appears as the story of change itself, but change is about time, is there actually anything changing?
Without thought nothing is changing and I am so afraid of being without thought, because thought says I will not be able to function/exist without it.
(Have a look at what you found as your answer in the question above). Just because thought says that colour is now green instead of blue…what actually changed?
Only thought content changed.
And where does thought end and colour begin and colour end and sound begin?
I cannot find the beginning or the end of anything.
Where is the dividing line that divides these from one another?
There's no line.
Yes, but said you were confused. What was it about the question about the clock exercise that confused you?
It's not confusion. It's fear. I am afraid of loosing my mind, because everything I always thought I am or know turns out to be a big fat lie.
There is an 'awareness' of thought that appears saying that the smell ‘coffee’ was here yesterday…but thought can’t claim anything in and of itself, but just because thought say so...does that make the thought true?
No it really doesn't. But what can I believe in, if nothing really is true.
Where is the ‘experiencer’ of experience?
There is no experiencer of experience. Just thoughts about what is experienced.
Describe it to me. For something to experience something means there must be two. An experiencer and the experience. Where is the dividing line between experiencer and experience?
I don't know how to respond to this question. There's only experience and then thoughts about it. No dividing line. Thought just comes in or not.
When you ignore all the labels given to all these so-called many COLOURS, are there many colours or just colour?
When I ignore all the labels that thought gives to so called many colours, then there is not even just colour. Only thought would be able to give an answer to your question (s).
And if it is only colour and not colourS…what exactly is it that is changing?
Nothing changes because nothing exists. How are you able to name anything without thought?
Thought also says that there is something behind the door. How is it known that there is something behind the door?

It isn't. It's an assumption.

Regards,
Stello

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forgetmenot
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Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:12 am

Hi Stello,

Before I respond to your last post, I would like for you to re-read your entire thread, from the beginning to now. Take your time, redo the exercises, read everything thoroughly and let me know how you go.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
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Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:56 am

Hello Kay,

just wanted to let you know that I am still working on it. It might take another day or two.
Once I'm through, I will get back to you.

Thank you Kay.

Bye for now,
Stello

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forgetmenot
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Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:32 pm

Hey Stello!

Yes, take your time, and when you're done, tell me how you went with it all and what you noticed etc

Love, Kay
Xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
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Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:00 pm

Hello Kay,

so I went through the whole thread and I am glad I did. It was a much deeper experience than the first time, although the answers I found were pretty much the same.
The obsessive search for truth I mentioned in the beginning doesn't appear to be so obsessive anymore. I feel like I am on the right path now (Thoughts about me being on the right path appear, nothing else).
The idea about what to expect from this investigation is not as abstract anymore. It's peace of mind. It's detachment from false identification. Seeing/accepting what is without adding anything that isn't true.
Also the pressure of being a good student (or guided person) almost completely disappeared.
The whole thinking process has lost a lot of its importance.
It ain't the truth anyways.
I don't know what else to tell you about it as it seems to be unnecessary to rephrase the obvious.
The important thing is that there is still a sense of Stello(not that I could find a Stello when I look) and I want to ask you what to do with it. Do I really need to get rid of this sense of Stello?

Go ahead Kay. Ask me anything.

Thank you.
Love,
Stello

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forgetmenot
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Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:27 pm

Hello Stello,

Reading through he thread is always beneficial as it helps to clear things up and there is a ‘bringing together’ of what has been pointed at and understood/seen. So I am glad it was beneficial for you. I even recommend reading through after ‘gating’, especially when doubts and confusion appear…because they will still appear, at least for a time!

Here are my responses to your last post and to the question you asked about a ‘sense of Stello’
LOOK very carefully at this. How is it known that thoughts are different?
Thought says so and I believe it, because if I don't believe my thoughts or if I question them, fear arises and the thought that I won't be able to function in this world anymore.
So there is a belief that somehow no thoughts will ever appear again? Is that not a thought also?

If ‘fear’ is still appearing about this, go back to the instructions I gave you about being with ‘fear’.
The content of thought is more thought and thought in and of itself is meaningless but is an appearance in/of THIS. Thoughts, if seen as individual thoughts seemingly appear and disappear because of their assigned meaning…but when ignoring what thoughts says about thoughts…does thought itself appear and disappear?
No. When I ignore what thought says about thoughts, then thought does not appear and disappear.
It seems that I am not able to ignore every thought that comes up. Some thoughts are easy to ignore, while others appear to be way too essential to be ignored. Those are the ones that are giving me a hard time to LOOK.
And how is it known that “some thoughts are easy to ignore, while others appear to be way too essential to be ignored”? Because a thought said so?

Are you the author of thought? Are you able to predict which thoughts will appear and when they will appear?
Where does one colour end and another begin?
I don't understand this question.
Where is the dividing line in colour? Everywhere you look there is colour, but where is the dividing line?

Sit and look at the ‘body’. What is there but colour (we are only looking at colour for this exercise)? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’?.

Look carefully…are there many different colourS or just colour?
Just colour is experienced. Thought says there's different colours.
Yes, so where is the dividing line in colour? Thought may say that there are many different colours…however there is only colour…so can a dividing line be found in colour?
THIS appears as the story of change itself, but change is about time, is there actually anything changing?
Without thought nothing is changing and I am so afraid of being without thought, because thought says I will not be able to function/exist without it.
There was no separate individual before this exploration took place, there is no separate person now and there won’t be one tomorrow! So, why would thought all of a sudden disappear?

Thought doesn’t appear; it is always here. Thought is experience and experience is always here! It is just thought that says thought is something other than experience. It is only thought that says experience is appearing as thought! So, thought never appears it is always here, as thought is experience itself!

Thought doesn't stop telling you that it's your car, your job, your body, your craving, your preference, your pain, your happiness, your this and your that. Why would thought stop saying something just because it's seen what thoughts are.
It's never been any other way. So it is only an expectation that thought will suddenly change its tune or disappear, is in itself just another in itself and is just more thought fluff.
Yes, but said you were confused. What was it about the question about the clock exercise that confused you?
It's not confusion. It's fear. I am afraid of loosing my mind, because everything I always thought I am or know turns out to be a big fat lie.
And what exactly is it that can lose a ‘mind?
What is the AE of a ‘mind’?
Are you in control of anything, including thought? Are you responsible for anything, including thought? Are you able to choose anything, including thought? Are you the ‘doer’ of anything, including the thinking of thought?


There is no ‘you/Stello’…to be doing anything? ‘You’ are not a person. Where can the person called Stello be found? You are not a thought that comes and go…the idea of a person is what comes and goes…but YOU are no that. How can you be, when you are aware of everything that comes and goes. If what you are is just an appearance…then you would disappear everytime the idea of a person disappeared!
There is an 'awareness' of thought that appears saying that the smell ‘coffee’ was here yesterday…but thought can’t claim anything in and of itself, but just because thought say so...does that make the thought true?
No it really doesn't. But what can I believe in, if nothing really is true.
What exactly is it that needs to believe something? Why does there need to be a belief in anything?
A belief is just another thought labelled as a ‘belief’. There is ‘knowingknown’…which is not a thought is just IS.
Describe it to me. For something to experience something means there must be two. An experiencer and the experience. Where is the dividing line between experiencer and experience?
I don't know how to respond to this question. There's only experience and then thoughts about it. No dividing line. Thought just comes in or not.
What is thought exactly, Stello? I have been saying throughout this exploration that experience is appearing as thought, sound, colour, sensation, taste, smell.

There is no experience AND thought. Experience is appearing as thought…so what is thought? It is experience itself!

So is there someone/something that is experiencing thought? Where do you end and a thought begin? Where do you end and colour begin. LOOK at this question very carefully.
When you ignore all the labels given to all these so-called many COLOURS, are there many colours or just colour?
When I ignore all the labels that thought gives to so called many colours, then there is not even just colour. Only thought would be able to give an answer to your question (s).
So, when dropping all labels given to ‘colour’ and dropping the label ‘colour’ as well…what is there?

And please don’t answer saying ‘only thought would be able to give an answer to your question’. That isn’t LOOKING.
And if it is only colour and not colourS…what exactly is it that is changing?
Nothing changes because nothing exists. How are you able to name anything without thought?
How can nothing exist? Are you not aware of colour, thought, sound, sensation, smell, taste? How is it they do not exist?????

Of course they exist…however, they are not separate THINGS. They are experience itself appearing as soundsensationtastecoloursmellthought (no divisions…no separation). And experience itself doesn’t change. Experience doesn’t come and go with the appearances it appears as…it ALWAYS IS.

When a sensation appears….how can that not exist? You can’t deny what is appearing…but what we are denying is that they are anything but experience itself, and not what thought says they are. It is thought that divides experience into those 6 categories. There are no 6 categories…they are all experience and experience is not divided.

You don’t need thought to tell you when “brrr brrr” has appeared by saying it is ‘cold’. You are aware of the appearance of ‘brrr brrr’ and the appearance of the thought labelling it ‘cold’. Are you not aware of ‘brrr brrr’ and thought ‘cold’? So how could ‘knowing’ not exist? There is no dividing line between ‘knowing’ and ‘known’…they are one and the same thing.

Not everything is story. It looks like it could be until you look a little closer.
Sound labelled "tweet" isn't story, but story can say that a blue bird down the street made that sound.
Flavour labelled "sweet" isn't a story, but story can be, "I love chocolate ice cream."
Image isn't story, but thought could say, "Wow! What a spectacular sunset!"
See the difference?


Now, if image labelled "sunset," isn't experience as you presently find it to be, then it IS story. And story cannot be changed. If it could, you'd be a thinker of thought.
Don't buy into any of this. Look for yourself to be absolutely certain
Thought also says that there is something behind the door. How is it known that there is something behind the door?
It isn't. It's an assumption.
Yes, it is an assumption and an assumption is just thought.
And how is it know that the colour ‘blue’ is a door?
The important thing is that there is still a sense of Stello(not that I could find a Stello when I look) and I want to ask you what to do with it. Do I really need to get rid of this sense of Stello?
What exactly is it that wants to get rid of the ‘sense of Stello’? So, with this sense of Stello…is this sense a true sense or just a thought about a ‘sense of Stello’? If Stello cannot be found…then to what exactly is the ‘sense of Stello’ a problem to?

There was no Stello before this exploration started, yet a thought story about a ‘sense of Stello’ appeared. There is no Stello now, and yet there is a thought story about a ‘sense of Stello’ appearing, and there will be no Stello in 5 minutes time or tomorrow, and yet the thought story about a ‘sense of Stello’ will still appear.

Are you the author of thought? Can you control, predict, push away or make particular thoughts appear or not appear?

Does the ‘sense of Stello’ have an actual sensation to it…or is it just a thought story appearing?



Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
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Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:04 am

Hello Kay,
So there is a belief that somehow no thoughts will ever appear again? Is that not a thought also?
Yes Kay. Beliefs are thoughts.
And how is it known that “some thoughts are easy to ignore, while others appear to be way too essential to be ignored”? Because a thought said so?
Yes. Because thought says so.
Are you the author of thought?
Definitely not.
Are you able to predict which thoughts will appear and when they will appear?
No.
Where is the dividing line in colour? Everywhere you look there is colour, but where is the dividing line?
There is no dividing line in actual experience.
Sit and look at the ‘body’. What is there but colour (we are only looking at colour for this exercise)?
Nothing. There is just colour.
Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’?
Still no dividing line to experience.
Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
I can't experience a dividing line.
Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’?
There is no dividing line.
Yes, so where is the dividing line in colour?
I see no dividing lines.
Thought may say that there are many different colours…however there is only colour…so can a dividing line be found in colour?
No.
And what exactly is it that can lose a ‘mind?
I was just about to answer that there is not even a mind in actual experience, when I saw the next question. :)))
It's just something thought says. There is nothing in AE that has a mind.
What is the AE of a ‘mind’?
There is no AE of a mind.
Are you in control of anything, including thought?
No. No control.
Are you responsible for anything, including thought?
No. No control = No responsibility
Are you able to choose anything, including thought?
No.
Are you the ‘doer’ of anything, including the thinking of thought?
I am not.
What exactly is it that needs to believe something?
I can't find anything that needs to believe something.
Why does there need to be a belief in anything?
It doesn't. No control, no responsibility = no need to believe in anything.
So is there someone/something that is experiencing thought?
No. There is only experiencing.
Where do you end and a thought begin? Where do you end and colour begin. LOOK at this question very carefully.
No end and no beginning. I am thought. I am colour. A big part of this answer is assumption. Even though I cannot find a me, somehow there is still the thought of me AND thought; me AND colour.
So, when dropping all labels given to ‘colour’ and dropping the label ‘colour’ as well…what is there?
Experience is all there is.
Not everything is story. It looks like it could be until you look a little closer.
Sound labelled "tweet" isn't story, but story can say that a blue bird down the street made that sound.
Flavour labelled "sweet" isn't a story, but story can be, "I love chocolate ice cream."
Image isn't story, but thought could say, "Wow! What a spectacular sunset!"
See the difference?
Yes.
And how is it know that the colour ‘blue’ is a door?
Thought says so. Only thought can tell that anything is a door.
What exactly is it that wants to get rid of the ‘sense of Stello’?
Thought said we are doing this to find out that there is no self(character Stello) and since there is some sense of Stello I have asked you, whether it was necessary to get rid of it or not.
I can't find anything that wants to get rid of the sense of Stello.
So, with this sense of Stello…is this sense a true sense or just a thought about a ‘sense of Stello’?
It's just a thought.
If Stello cannot be found…then to what exactly is the ‘sense of Stello’ a problem to?
No problem with the sense of Stello.
Are you the author of thought?
No I am not.
Can you control, predict, push away or make particular thoughts appear or not appear?
No.
Does the ‘sense of Stello’ have an actual sensation to it…or is it just a thought story appearing?
It's just a thought story appearing.


Thanks much.
Love,
Stello

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Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:10 am

Once again...I came to check to see why you haven't responded...because my last post to you has disappeared. I have no idea what is going on. If you don't hear from me within a day of you responding, Stello, how about you drop a post asking where I am? I guide a few people at a time, so me trying to keep tabs on who is answering and who isn't can gets sporadic. So, please if I haven't responded, do me and you a favour and drop a post asking what is happening.
So re-posting this...hopefully this time it gets sent.

And what exactly is it that can lose a ‘mind?
I was just about to answer that there is not even a mind in actual experience, when I saw the next question. :)))
It's just something thought says. There is nothing in AE that has a mind.
Good one! :)
Are you responsible for anything, including thought?
No. No control = No responsibility
Yes, exactly! If you are not the thinker of thought and you cannot control what thoughts appear…then how can you be responsible for anything?
Where do you end and a thought begin? Where do you end and colour begin. LOOK at this question very carefully.
No end and no beginning. I am thought. I am colour. A big part of this answer is assumption. Even though I cannot find a me, somehow there is still the thought of me AND thought; me AND colour.
Stello is a thought…but what you are in not a thought! You couldn't possibly be a thought, because there is no such thing as a 'thought'. There is only 'thoughtsmelltastesensationsoundcolor.

And yes, those thoughts will continue to appear…the thoughts that says that there is a me here, and colour over there, and thought here and so on. Why would that change?

You want the identification with an “I/self” to stop as proof that you have 100% clearly seen that there is no self....right? But that idea/thought is just another thought bubble. And is seen in utter clarity. Even the idea that something is identifying with thought is just an idea. There is NOTHING here that can identify with thought. Only thought says that anything is identifying as anything.
And how is it know that the colour ‘blue’ is a door?
Thought says so. Only thought can tell that anything is a door.
Thought can’t tell or differentiate anything from anything else. Thought cannot think, nor see, nor hear, nor taste, nor smell, nor feel…thought is an appearance, just as is colour, smell, taste and so on.

What is ‘door’ in AE? The label ‘door’ is AE of thought and not the AE of a door!
The thoughts about a door are AE of thought and not the AE of a door
The colour labelled ‘door’ is AE of colour and not the AE of a door!

So in AE there is no ‘door’, what is actually appearing is label + colour + thoughts about a door…but there is no door.
Can you see this?

What exactly is it that wants to get rid of the ‘sense of Stello’?
Thought said we are doing this to find out that there is no self(character Stello) and since there is some sense of Stello I have asked you, whether it was necessary to get rid of it or not.
I can't find anything that wants to get rid of the sense of Stello.
Who exactly is it that thought is talking to or telling? Thought isn’t telling anyone anything.

In actual experience, is there a border where a thought stops, and the "knowing" of it starts? Is there a border where thought stops and experience starts?

A thought is much like a piece of graffiti scribbled on a wall
Graffiti doesn't know the wall exists
It doesn't know it is appearing on the wall
It doesn't know whether its words are true or not
It doesn't know that it is saying anything
It doesn't know anything whatsoever
Similarly, a thought is just a bit of decoration appearing in THIS. It appears. You are aware of it. But it knows nothing whatsoever about reality. And that is all there is to thought.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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forgetmenot
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Location: Australia

Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:00 am

P.S. I have alerted our tech support about what is happening to posts and they will be looking into it.
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
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Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:48 am

Hello Kay,
So in AE there is no ‘door’, what is actually appearing is label + colour + thoughts about a door…but there is no door.
Can you see this?
Yes.
In actual experience, is there a border where a thought stops, and the "knowing" of it starts? Is there a border where thought stops and experience starts?
No and no.

Bye for now,
Stello

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forgetmenot
Posts: 6059
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Is that so?

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:38 am

Hey Stello,

Thank you for being so diligent in looking and answering questions to date. I just want to be thorough and make that nothing important has been missed. Here are some questions, you don't need to take time over them, as they are to help determine if there are any areas that would be helpful to LOOK at more. Please answer what's true for you right now, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer.

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
Is there a thinker of thought?
Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?
Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?
Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration?


Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Stello
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:17 am

Re: Is that so?

Postby Stello » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:58 pm

Hello Kay,
Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
Yes it has been clearly seen. Temporarily.
Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
Also yes it has been seen.
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
No. (That is true for me right now and also sort of an ideal answer, because the 'Stello character' is still acting as if he was choosing all the time.)
Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
No.
Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
No.
Is there a thinker of thought?
No.
Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?
No.
Is there a self in the body somewhere?
No.
Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?
No.
Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?
No.
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Yes. The 'Stello character' in every day life is still behaving exactly as he did before this investigation. Only when thoughts are leading to any kind of suffering and he gets aware of it, he looks and then the suffering seems to diminish. Is it supposed to be like that?
I can't find anything that would want to hold on to the false beliefs and yet something does.
There is no Stello and he won't admit it.

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration?
The difference is that now I have a tool called 'looking' which I am using whenever I find the time to cultivate the new sense of not being a character called Stello.

Thanks much Kay.

Bye for now,
Stello


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