Had a glimpse, but deeper looking needed.

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

I understand the holidays can be hectic. Okay I'll wait to hear from you.

Wesley

[JayJ]

Back now Wesley, sorry about all that.

Okay, let's look at hearing next. I have an exercise for you.

Sit quietly somewhere, doesn't need to be long maybe 5-10 minutes or longer if you'd like. Listen to the sounds happening and notice any labeling by thoughts such as "car, rain, dog, people, etc."

-What is sound in direct experience, beyond these labels?
-Where is the sound? Inside? Outside?
-Where's the border between inside and outside?
-In direct experience, is there a hearer and the heard? Or just hearing?
-Is there an I that's hearing, anywhere?

What is sound in direct experience, beyond these labels?

In direct experience sound is just a vibration but to answer your question they are just random never ending ever chainging noises/sounds.

Where is the sound? Inside? Outside?

The sound is inside and outside. It appears to happen "out there" for example a bird chirping but it is heard here "inside"
So saying that Im unsure of inside/outside. Maybe its just happening and there is no inside/outside

Where's the border between inside and outside?

The mind says the border is my skin, but in direct experience there is no border, everything is actually borderless but just appears to be separate.

In direct experience, is there a hearer and the heard? Or just hearing?

Just hearing itself, sounds are heard and that is all. But the mind will start to label these sounds after the fact. So the "hearer" is not real and is commenting after the sound.

Is there an I that's hearing, anywhere?

There is no "I" hearing. Just sounds happening and hearing by itself. This I will make out its hearing but it is an after thought.

Thanks
Jay

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

So saying that Im unsure of inside/outside. Maybe its just happening and there is no inside/outside

There you go!

The mind says the border is my skin, but in direct experience there is no border, everything is actually borderless but just appears to be separate.

Right, it's worth continuing to distinguish the "raw sense perception" from the interpretations that thought add. "There is sound," is different from "the sound is inside and outside." Inside, outside, self, no-self are all added by thought.

There is no "I" hearing. Just sounds happening and hearing by itself. This I will make out its hearing but it is an after thought.

Great looking.

So are you 100% certain there is no I? Do you have any doubts about this?

If the answer is yes, I have one more question for you:

How do choices and decisions work?

Hugs

Wesley

[JayJ]

Hi Wesley

Im certain now there is no "I" and never was.

This doesnt stop me from thinking im an "I" in certain circumstances but it is seen as just an illusion that is still just happening.

How do choices and decisions work?

As there is no "I" then choice and decisions make no sense. Thoughts arise appearing to be making choices and decisions but have no power over whats actually happening.

Jay

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

As there is no "I" then choice and decisions make no sense. Thoughts arise appearing to be making choices and decisions but have no power over whats actually happening.

Can you take a look at situations in your day and notice where the decision is made? Deciding what to wear, what to eat, which seat to take, etc. Look for the 'decision point,' the exact moment the decision is made and then describe to me how it works.

Wesley

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay, are you there?

[JayJ]

Hi Wesley

Been rushed off my feet for days now, feeling soooo tired.

I have been doing as you asked to see when exactly a decision or choice is made.

This answer is gonna be fairly short as all that is noticed is that a choice is made the body moves in tune with that choice then a thought will arise to claim the thought was "my" choice.

I cannot find any point where choosing happens, it is in the moment and spontaneous.

Thank you for your patience.

The Christmas madness is all but finished now so can get back to you promptly.

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Been rushed off my feet for days now, feeling soooo tired.

Sorry to hear you've been feeling tired, hopefully you have some time over the holidays to recuperate.

Nice looking, a decision is made spontaneously and afterwards a thought claims it was "my" choice.

Are you ready for the final questions? Is there anything you would like to look into?

Hugs
Wesley

[JayJ]

I'm ready for the questions.

Hit "me"

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Coming at ya!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Please try to describe the process as best you can, even if gropingly. Don't forget to give some practical examples from your everyday experience (even if there is no real 'you’). What are you responsible for?

6) Anything to add? (This is the place where sometimes uncensored stream-of-consciousness, exhuberent outbursts about what this whole thing feels like, are par for the course, and largely a good idea really!)