Had a glimpse, but deeper looking needed.

[JayR]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
I have come to LU to seek guidance to go through the gateless gate.
I've done all the seeking I can take, it's now time to see through this "I" contraction. Become tired of holding up this ego and supplying it with energy.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
I've been around the block enough times to realise that what I'm looking for isn't anything the ego/mind can grab onto or have. Expect, hopefully just to see the truth no matter what the truth is regardless of anything.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry? I have been seeking "enlightenment" for around 3 years.
Tried tons of different approaches from mantra meditation, kundalini activation, chakra healing/balancing, shaktipat, and most recently a lot of enquiry.

About a year ago during meditation the lights went out, pure shiny blackness, full of energy and alive. This was not an experience, I disappeared to only try making sense of it once "coming back" don't know how long "I" was gone but maybe a few seconds. Need guidance to realize once and for all there is no self and see through it.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? 10

[WesleySPK]

Hello JayR,

Is it okay if I call you JayR, or Jay? If not, let me know what you would like to go by.

Thanks for your introduction and honesty in answering these questions. My name is Wesley, nice to meet you. If it's okay with you, I can be your guide.

If you agree, then I would like to mention a couple of guidelines before starting:

Please try your best to post every day. If something comes up, that's perfectly fine just try to give me a notice and I will do the same for you.

For your own benefit, I encourage you for the duration of this process to set aside all past experiences (or non experiences), insights, expectations, beliefs, spiritual teachings, and anything that is not in your direct experience right now. If you are doing any spiritual practices, it would be helpful to temporarily stop them while we look. However, if you feel strongly about continuing them anyways, that's okay with me too - that was the case for me when I was guided.

That being said, don't be afraid to give the wrong answer or the right answer, just speak from whatever is true for you in the moment. I will be asking you questions that point to your direct experience to see if there is in fact an "I" to be found. I will try my best to help you look and point out where you may be stuck, but ultimately it will be your own willingness to look that will carry you through this. And there's no pressure here! This is not about effort, just looking at what already is the case.

Please give this a read to understand the quote function. All you do is highlight the text you want to quote, then while it's highlighted, click the "Quote" button in the top left corner. It should look something like:

this

Also, to be clear please read this link on what Liberation Unleashed is not http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

If you agree to everything so far, then let's start and have a look together to see if we can locate this "I"!

I disappeared to only try making sense of it once "coming back" don't know how long "I" was gone but maybe a few seconds.

Where did you go to? How did you come back? In your experience now, can you tell me what "I" refers to?

Wesley

[JayJ]

Hi Wesley

Thank you for being my guide, you can call me Jay.

Im grateful for you to take the time to help me see through the illusion once and for all. I am pretty excited to get started :)

I understand the rules, I only give you answers that are from direct experience nothing else matters or counts.

JayR wrote:
I disappeared to only try making sense of it once "coming back" don't know how long "I" was gone but maybe a few seconds.


Where did you go to? How did you come back? In your experience now, can you tell me what "I" refers to?

Where did I go to? Interesting question, looking more closely at what happened I would change that to something else. I as pure awareness was still present but the ego "I" had vanished. So the coming back was the illusory I, me, Jay coming back and claiming that I had vanished for that short moment.

"I" refers to me the character Jay, with a life and choices. highs and lows, happiness and sadness, positive and negative thoughts. All happening to a me, "I".

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Great, good to hear you're on board. I will do my best here.

I understand the rules, I only give you answers that are from direct experience nothing else matters or counts.

Our aim is to look in direct experience, yes, but again don't be afraid to say anything. Just say what's true for you, and if it isn't from your direct experience that's fine because we can always look into that.

Where did I go to? Interesting question, looking more closely at what happened I would change that to something else. I as pure awareness was still present but the ego "I" had vanished. So the coming back was the illusory I, me, Jay coming back and claiming that I had vanished for that short moment.

Okay great, thank you for clarifying this. So it seems to me you're saying there was an "I" that was pure awareness, and there was also an "I" that you say is an ego.

So the coming back was the illusory I, me, Jay coming back and claiming that I had vanished for that short moment.

When you say coming back, exactly what do you mean? Did you go somewhere else? It certainly may seem as if this sense of self, or I, can come and go. But in your experience right now, how does "I" go somewhere, and how does it come back?

Looking forward to your answers

Wesley

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Everything okay?

Wesley

[JayJ]

Hi Wesley

Sorry for not getting back to you. I'm here now and will answer your questions promptly.

Had a mad few days but it's all sorted now.

[JayJ]

Our aim is to look in direct experience, yes, but again don't be afraid to say anything. Just say what's true for you, and if it isn't from your direct experience that's fine because we can always look into that.

No problem I will answer with honesty and just say whats true for me in the moment.

JayJ wrote:
Where did I go to? Interesting question, looking more closely at what happened I would change that to something else. I as pure awareness was still present but the ego "I" had vanished. So the coming back was the illusory I, me, Jay coming back and claiming that I had vanished for that short moment.


Okay great, thank you for clarifying this. So it seems to me you're saying there was an "I" that was pure awareness, and there was also an "I" that you say is an ego.

In the moment during that particular meditation "I" vanished meaning the me character Jay. What was left was just pure blackness emptiness. I think this was an experience of pure awareness without ego "I".
So to answer your question properly there was no "I" that was pure awareness just pure awareness by itself.

JayJ wrote:
So the coming back was the illusory I, me, Jay coming back and claiming that I had vanished for that short moment.


When you say coming back, exactly what do you mean? Did you go somewhere else? It certainly may seem as if this sense of self, or I, can come and go. But in your experience right now, how does "I" go somewhere, and how does it come back?

This is a hard question. The ego vanished which I call "me" but rose up again very quickly.

In my experience here and now the I cannot go somewhere or comeback it seems like its always here but that isnt true either. The "I" comes and goes depending on whats happening. Doing washing up there doesn't seem to be an I but just hands moving and dishes getting cleaned. But for example in traffic the I can become expanded because of frustration and getting annoyed at other drivers.
So the I seems like it is always there to varying degrees depending on the environment.

Hope that makes some sense.

[JayJ]

Hi wesley

Are you there?

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

No worries. Busy couple days myself with the holiday, I will get back tomorrow.

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Happy thanksgiving to you

Thank you for your answers. Before we go further into looking at what I is, I have a couple questions:

What do you think seeing through the illusion of self will be like?

How will you feel?

What will change? What won't?

Hugs

Wesley

[JayJ]

Hi Wesley

Happy thanksgiving to you.

Seeing througn the illusion wont change my life or its circumstances. I think the feeling will be more of a relief than anything else, to finally realize there is no personal responsibility for what happens in my life.

No more i should have done this or that differently or somebody else should be doing this or that.

Just an overall relaxation in life in general.


Jay

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Right. There is a good analogy for this: when you were young and believed in Santa, did anything change when you found out he didn't exist? It is the same with "I", you simply see that something you thought existed, doesn't.

As far as thoughts of "this should be different" going away, maybe they will change, maybe they won't. But is anyone thinking them? Is there an "I" to which they happen?

Most people do experience a relief simply because it is a relief to no longer feel personally responsible for something that you never were.

Okay great, so then I would like you to read the following statement and please write anything and everything that comes up, thoughts, feelings, sensations, etc.

There is no "I," there never has been and never will be. No one controlling this piece of life, no manager. No center of experience.

Write what comes up

Looking forward to your answers!

Wesley

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay, still there?

[JayJ]

Hi Wesley

Still here, not receiving any emails to say you have replied.

Then forgetting completely about the whole thing.

Gonna sort out the settings so we can go about this daily. Very sorry about this.

[WesleySPK]

Hi Jay,

Oh I see. Yes sometimes it does that. If you can, it's best to bookmark this thread or keep it as an open tab and check daily.

When you can please resume from my previous post.

Wesley