EXPERIMENT - FAO New honest enthusiastic green wanted

[Karmic Eraser]

I have just started with a mentor, but what you're saying here leaps out at me so profoundly that I just read all of it to my friend. We're printing out your 4 points, and we're going to apply them. I am going to continue with my mentor; she is going to apply them without guidance.

I have to say that I have, at this point, complete faith in your experiment. I've been "on the path" for a long time, and have learned (or unlearned!) a lot, and I'm hearing you "say" where I understand I need to "go." I too would be very interested to see if someone reaches the gate with no guidance and only your guidelines. I'm certain it has happened in a similar manner many times, but isn't documented here.

Having said that, I would also like to mentor someday. I personally feel that any opened mind lends to the opening of all mind, and I want to do my part.

I will post updates here on my personal progress and that of my friend, who is computer shy. I think your experiment is brilliant. Why wouldn't it work, or, rather, why would it work any other way?

[adriandc]

Hi Karmic eraser, your thread seems to be going quite well! Good to see, hope your friend is doing well too.


Overall, I might call this experiment a failure, mainly because it seems the key factor in keeping someone motivated IS the detailed responses and hard work from the guide. Im not too sure yet, but I really beleive had I engaged personally with any of the people in this thread and really looked into what they were saying, I would have received more engagement.

We'll see, if anyone else wants to give this a serious go before I ask the mods to unsticky it post here!!!

What Im really looking for is someone who can post at least once every 2 days, and keep fully motivated with minimum directed from me.

[adriandc]

also someone who isnt already in a one on one thread! :)

[yuri2006]

Hi adriandc

I have just found this forum, and is ready to try. Your thread is the first "red one" on this board; that's how I chose it. I read your post, looks interesting. However, my first question is: where can I find some info about you? OK, I don't need the proof that you are the "liberated" person :); but some info on background, age, interests would be good.

[terminus]

Hi Adrian, I'm ready!

Looking with or without an I, no difference. Focus on looking with the question: who is looking through the eyes? Nothing else but the objects. Still there is looking and there is a distance to the object.
The "worry" feeling in the stomach has been a companion the whole life, on and off. It is the first thing when waking up with the thoughts: Is there something to worry about? How about yesterdays worries, are they fixed? Is there something to worry about tomorrow? Is there something to remember? It is just a habbit started in early childhood and about "have I done something wrong"?.
So this is about looking, focus on automatic with this body and other bodies.
How regulary do you want replies, what is the frequency?

[adriandc]

Hi adriandc

I have just found this forum, and is ready to try. Your thread is the first "red one" on this board; that's how I chose it. I read your post, looks interesting. However, my first question is: where can I find some info about you? OK, I don't need the proof that you are the "liberated" person :); but some info on background, age, interests would be good.

Hi yuri, sadly theres not much info on me online other than my facebook page which is a bit more personal to be laying out on a forum.

I know its much nicer to have faith in someone and have confidence that they've "been there , done that". Id be the same when listening to someone else. However at the end of it all, theres either an insight worth seeing or theres not , if you get me, my life doesnt have any baring on whether there is a "you" or not. Its ultimately up to you to investigate that.
Info for your own interest:
name: adrian
age:29
interests: football (soccer), music production, and psychology
background regarding all this: saw no self one year ago, helped about 6/7 others to see it, hit what I believe is stream entry in theravada last month, but hard to explain the difference between seeing no self, and stream entry, ie arguable seeing no self IS stream entry. Either way its a huge insight to get you going, moreso than basic meditation.

[adriandc]

Hi Adrian, I'm ready!

Looking with or without an I, no difference. Focus on looking with the question: who is looking through the eyes? Nothing else but the objects. Still there is looking and there is a distance to the object.
The "worry" feeling in the stomach has been a companion the whole life, on and off. It is the first thing when waking up with the thoughts: Is there something to worry about? How about yesterdays worries, are they fixed? Is there something to worry about tomorrow? Is there something to remember? It is just a habbit started in early childhood and about "have I done something wrong"?.
So this is about looking, focus on automatic with this body and other bodies.
How regulary do you want replies, what is the frequency?

Hi terminus, glad to see you're up for it, Im going to bend the rules ever so slightly just in case its clear people are going WAYY off focus and slightly redirect their focus,granted the experiment will have been only a half success but its better than nothing.

So remember, only those instructions matter, this is ONLY about you seeing there is no self, absolutely nothing else is relevant to attaining this insight, as for frequency, I guess as often as you can, but if you genuinely have nothing at all to add then sure I guess theres nothing to post.

Best of luck, ill be watching with interest :)

[yuri2006]

Hi adriandc, thanks a lot for your response.

I would prefer an older guide; really sorry but I think that for most of humanity wisdom starts after 40, or even after 50. Certainly there are exceptions.

Thanks once more

[adriandc]

Hi adriandc, thanks a lot for your response.

I would prefer an older guide; really sorry but I think that for most of humanity wisdom starts after 40, or even after 50. Certainly there are exceptions.

Thanks once more

no problem yuri, please remember one thing when you are talking to your guide, its nothing to do them, its to do with you investigating on your own.

[Tak]

So I may as well use this opportunity to point out to you that a guides effort should be appreciated, probably more than it is.

Let me start off by saying : Thank you for this opportunity.

I have a theory though. ... Its just the very fact that the thread is being kept alive ,i.e. its just the persistent push the guide is doing. And what REALLY cracks it is, persistence and repetition from the person trying.

These instructions may seem weird, and very specific, but its honestly what I did that I think made me see this.

So if a green is interested in trying this, all I ask is that they keep replying AT LEAST once every 2 days with how they are getting on. Im not going to start guiding you, my only replies will be simply out of courtesy , basically to tell you Im reading your posts.
...

So whos up for it?

We'll give it 2/3 weeks of regular replies from you and then review it to see if it worked or failed.

Hello,
i just joined this forum this week and am posting here to participate in the experiment.

Some narrative background - I'm 43 male, single, living in california, a programmer by trade. I came to this site via some posts and podcasts from Lori Ann Lothian at http://www.theawakeneddreamer.com. I'm especially drawn to her posts/podcasts about resistance to waking up and the utter simplicity of it all. She mentioned this site in one of the podcasts archived on her facebook page.

I believe I could probably say or write all the right things (especially after reading the PDFs or some of the threads here) to put on the appearance of 'getting it', but it wouldn't be true ,would not stand up to in-person scrutiny, nor would I have actually experienced it. Right now I'm the guy who believes he can enthusiastically describe, understand and explain all about water and swimming but has never actually been near the water, much less in it. In a dry and unsatisfying way I know ‘it’ already, but I wanna feel it, know it, realize it, believe it in a way that doesn't involve the mind. ( /sigh at expectations.. just putting that out there )

What I've tried before (lots of thinking and approaching from my brain) hasn't shifted my perspective like I've heard described here, so .. here I am. Surrendering to trying something new .. tossing my useful-tool mind at a whopper of a puzzle .. have a direct experience of questioning the really big assumption -- that I exist. I'll try and stay out of my head, it's way too easy for me to retreat there.

Thanks for offering this option -- I'm excited about the opportunity .. i'm hoping this experiment will allow me to put aside my argumentative / analytical mind and focus me .. w/o having new material to analyze and ponder, i'll only be left with the truth to stare at. And the external accountability will be appreciated as well. If i end up getting hopelessly lost in my head here anyway, it sounds like there are other paths here to try. :)

-Mark

[Tak]

Day 1 - Tuesday 1/May/2012

I woke up today (lol, not like that) and couldn’t remember all four things. off to a great start! I remembered persistence (#4), and something that I’m gonna backfill as ‘action checking’.

So action checking … as I went about my morning shower routine I tried staying with my breath, letting the narrator fizzle itself out and then asking “so.. you don’t exist, eh?” It felt kinda odd. a bit uneasy. so what did I do? i ran right to my head!

“well, lets watch this shampoo’ing my hair thing .. did I actually decide to do that?” well no, it was sorta an auto-pilot experience. get up, go to shower, turn on water, grab shampoo, dump on head, lather, rinse, repeat. It didn’t feel particularly present tho, more asleep .. I was thinking about this post, the forum, trying to remember the 4 points, etc .. rather than simply experiencing the splashing water, the scent of the shampoo, the chill, etc.

Hurm, missed it!

I then promptly wondered how I’d finished my hair with no memory of deciding / choosing to do so.. asleep auto-pilot? or maybe the universe just happening w/o a me having to be there. I dont recall ever really *deciding* to move my limbs deliberately .. outside of something like yoga. But then again, just standing there with the intention to wash my hair didn’t suddenly possess the body with the actions required. Hurm, that feels complicated and thought-y, I bet i’m just twisting things.

I laughed a bit at how silly I was being .. like a kid trying to set a trap for santa claus .. i pictured a bear trap baited with choc chip cookies and milk. I bet/hope this will be amusing to read later.

But there was a distinct sensation of unease there.. a desperate refusal to <something>, followed by an immediate flight back into the comfort of the mind. I’d like to explore that uncomfortableness, i feel it’s my pointer if i can be brave enough. And I think I’ll declare that to be success-experience today .. seeing a place of unease in myself, recognizing that maybe I can use that as a pointer and a call to bravery.

the rest of the work-day passed in a whirlwind of asleep/’normal’ perspective.

I’ll re-engage with the instructions later tonight.

[Tak]

Day 2 - Wed 2/May/2012

am:
last night i noticed the cover of one of my favorite consciousness books, the untethered soul. It’s got a silhouette of a horse (or maybe a unicorn) on the beach, it makes you take a closer look … is it a horse or unicorn? it’s hard to say with certainty. As far as I remember, the book makes no mention of the cover art. But now that I’ve heard there’s the analogy unicorn:exists::self:exists, i’m wondering if the cover art is a nod towards the analogy .. sort of an inside joke.

[adriandc]

Nice one!! :)

Dont forget, only those 4 points!! Especially the last one, every situation in your life is a time to apply 1- 3 ,seeing no self is your ONLY interest here

[Tak]

Day 2 - Wed 2/May/2012

pm:

I kept forgetting to do my “visual immersion / action checking / other selves” during the work-day. I contemplated the “forgetting” itself as a path, but didn’t stick with it very long. Put out some reminders for myself so that I’d have some visual and interrupt driven prompts to do my “no-self” challenge. Also set up a series of automated txt’s to myself at various times throughout the day. Hey, whatever might shake me out of my routine..

But, Wow, it’s easy to just operate normally.

I don’t know that I quite “get” the visual (senses) immersion approach .. but perhaps feeling silly is part of the process. I read a post somewhere else there that people have used other senses to immerse in .. sound, scent... i’m very visual and descriptive, maybe i should try a sense that’s im not so strongly/mentally tied to..

The “default” automation of self and others has always seemed obvious to me .. or maybe a tragedy .. we go thru so much of life “on auto pilot”, but i’d never thought of that as a way to pull back the curtain..

Actions arising from the material body seem like they’d have the body as origin .. “hungry”, “itch” .. which prompts thought and corresponding action. I considered the more abstract “i need to make a decision” thoughts that arise. Maybe those also arise from an emotion .. “I’m lonely … what do i want to do about that”.

If there’s no-self, who’s lonely? f*ck if i know, I’d guess you’re saying the answer is no one, it’s just an experience expressing itself through my form. so let it express itself and surrender to the next experience. That sounds like the right thing to say, but it feels like more of the same describing water w/o feeling wet.

I find i’m fiercely distracting myself from sitting quietly and considering this. I have to remind myself that this approach has worked, and not try and figure out how to improve it w/o understand it. This is going to require some bravery.

I must remember to experience this, not just think about it.

[Tak]

Day 3 - Thur 3/May/2012

pm:

My txt’s to myself were a great success. They fire about once an hour from 9a-11p (could do with a bit more randomness, but that’s 1.1 version) and I found it effective at getting me out of whatever busy-mind/asleep task I was engaged in. *blip* Reminder: you don’t exist *blip*. Ya. It did make me laugh and smile tho.

During one of my walkabouts (I took to strolling thru the parking lot treelawn at times), i started to really look / think about the supposition: “I don’t exist” or “the self is a lie, just like Santa”. How would you actually go about testing that. Then I realized that’s what this process is .. a recipe for questioning the big assumption. whew, maybe now I feel a little better.. the strangeness of the process seems appropriate to the strangeness of the question.. anyway, I’m hoping that little exercise was just me procrastinating or not being willing to trust / surrender completely w/o a bit of buy-in.

As well as looking at this, looking at that, trying to look at the world w/o bringing alot of preconceptions .. lots of trees just hanging out. Saw some birds. I didnt really like the chain of thought that I wasnt all that different from all those other things, those .. less sentient .. things. It made me uncomfortable. I tried to stick with the feeling for as long as I could.

It reminded me of an experience i had meditating, where the guide instructed us to find a place from which to observe our thoughts as they arose. Then to “look at the observer of those thoughts”.. ok, whoa.. i remember feeling a bit strange there. “is there anyone observing that observer?” He let us sit with that for awhile. Then he said: “now turn around” .. i remember a sharp spike of fear and popping my eyes open. No *way* was i gonna turn around .. nothing was back there.. a big yawning nothing. I’m thinking that might have been me getting my first taste.

-tak