EXPERIMENT - FAO New honest enthusiastic green wanted

[adriandc]

Ok, I wont lie, I dont like guiding, I just find it frustrating and unrewarding.
30% of people tend to stop replying and lose interest, 10% try hard but never get it, and the rest , if they do get it generally vanish, they neither hang around for the conversation or help guide others. Obviously there are exceptions but overall it feels like you may as well have liberated a google bot. So I may as well use this opportunity to point out to you that a guides effort should be appreciated, probably more than it is.

I have a theory though. That despite the effort a guide puts in, they arent actually doing much, at all! That really , if the person has the right instructions and they are determined enough, they WILL crack it, guide or no guide. So really, its not a profound insightful statement the guide says that cracks it, its not a routine of intricate questions that crack it, its not some extraordinary talent at finding the holes the seeker is trying to escape through that cracks its. Its just the very fact that the thread is being kept alive ,i.e. its just the persistent push the guide is doing. And what REALLY cracks it is, persistence and repetition from the person trying.

I could be wrong, its just a theory, but I want to try an experiment, if this experiment works, it may save alot of guides alot of effort.

I am going to try and lay out to you EXACTLY what I did to "look", the reason why only a year later Im more solid about this is because I simply did it again recently , and it worked again, it deepened this very quickly. But I didnt the process, I did the exact same thing I did last time.

These instructions may seem weird, and very specific, but its honestly what I did that I think made me see this.

So if a green is interested in trying this, all I ask is that they keep replying AT LEAST once every 2 days with how they are getting on. Im not going to start guiding you, my only replies will be simply out of courtesy , basically to tell you Im reading your posts.

INSTRUCTIONS:

These instructions involve 4 different things, well , 3 really specifically, but the last instruction is very very very very important, actually its the most important one, and is the one that is the basis of my theory. I cant stress that enough. And they are obviously all to do with seeing that there is no self.

1. Visual Immersion

Its all about using what you see in front of you. Its a purely visual process. Thats why when some people crack it, they say stuff like "I literally just looked, there was nothing more to it".
So heres what to do: Try and keep your eyes more open, literally. Look at any object in front of you and try and see that there is only that object, there is no agreement between a self/you and that object , there is no experienCER of that object, there is ONLY that object. Its just an experience of that object.
It doesnt mean you have to stare at one thing all day, you could do it anytime of the day, as you walk down the street, as you look at people, as you look at TV, as you look physically at your computer (not the content of the screen). Literally FOCUS your eyes and SEE there is only an experience of that object , no self. Get swallowed up in the object. It may an object you are quickly passing by as you walk down the street. It may be the table as you are sitting eating your breakfast.
Explanation: The deeper this has gotten for me, the more Ive realised there truly is no experiencer, no seperate self, people make statements upon experiencing this like "oneness", "unity". IMO this is dangerous here, because you can end up creating an "I am everything" escape route.

2. Action checking

Whether it is scratching your head, saying something to someone, walking down the street, thinking a thought, making a decision,reacting suddenly, laughing out loud, making a slice a toast, ALWAYS try and notice that it happened without a "you" deciding it.
This will be tricky, there is easy stuff like walking, scratching the head, but then there is harder stuff like deciding to go to work that morning. What you do for the harder stuff is try and go back further and see where the thought of that decision came from. You will always either reach a dead end or a previous thought that triggered that one. You will never find the self that created that thought. Do this all the time, as much as you can, for both the easy and hard stuff.

3. Other "selves"

As much as you can, look at other people, try and observe as best you can how their movements are nearly automical, you may even feel you are pretending it or imagining it, if thats how you feel, thats fine, just keep at it, just constantly notice how other people behave in almost robotic fashion, as if there is no "decider" behind any of their actions.

4. PERSISTENCE, NB NB NB

Doing all this once wont work, doing this stuff 20 times may not work. Do ALL THREE INSTRUCTIONS ALL THE TIME , DO NOT STOP. Even if you feel you cracked it DO NOT STOP. Even if you feel the whole thing is a joke DO NOT STOP, even if you feel that forgot to do it for the last 2 hours, GET BACK TO IT. Actually, you can even use that forgetfulness as further proof there is no self that can force you to do this. Even if its completely confusing and paradoxical, i.e. the fact that you are trying to look , yet there cant be a self to do the looking. Its not paradoxical, what is happening is that human is reading these instructions, attempting it, thinking there is a self that is carrying out the instructions, until they finally crack it and realise it was all just a process that happened and was not controlled by anyone.
PERSISTENCE IS REALLY THE KEY. Thats my theory. Why does nobody get this instantly. You have to smash this stuff from all angles as often as you can.



If you start to feel unity, you havent cracked it, its just a glimpse, you're on the right track, just dont do the "I am everything" thing, there is no you, simple as that.

If you feel ridiculously frustrated, good , your on the right track.

If you feel a sinking "worry" feeling in the stomach , good your on the right track.

If you know in your heart and soul that you have completely cracked it, that you truly finally see there is no you whatsoever, and after 24 hours you still feel that way, you probably cracked it, BUT DONT STOP, KEEP GOING JUST INCASE.


So whos up for it?

We'll give it 2/3 weeks of regular replies from you and then review it to see if it worked or failed.

[Denis]

Excellent advice. I am not a guide but I certainly appreciate the effort y'all make to help. The patience is impressive. If it would do any good, I would apologize for rude comments I've seen posted to guides.

I hope your new strategy works. I like it.

Thanks for hanging in here. Denis

[adriandc]

Thanks Denis, and no need to apologise Denis! Especially if you didnt post rude comments yourself, anyway, as you know, its nothing personal!! ;-)

Anyway is there any new greens out there interested in trying this? Blake Stone is PMing me but its not going to be a clear cut case because hes been here a while.

[theparanoidjunkie]

I would be interested. I joined just a few days ago and have been doing a lot of searching and exploring my consciousness (or lack of) in the last few months.

Instruction #2 is something that has been on my mind a lot lately. The idea of what it is that's causing my actions and reactions.

I will be on later to post more. Thank you.

[adriandc]

Great stuff theparanoidjunkie,

While admittedly Ill be tempted to start guiding you and redirecting your focus if I feel you are getting lost, my theory is that there is really nothing I can that is not in those instructions, so it is up to you to persevere, investigate, look, look and look again!!
All 3 are important, the first one is my personal favourite, but if you can apply all 3 as much as possible.

Looking forward to reading your progress (keeping in mind it not feel like progress at all till your done).

Also if you have any last questions fire away, its just I dont want to start answering questions or getting involved half way through it.

[theparanoidjunkie]

Firstly, I apoligize if I seem to ramble and wander in my words. I have a strange way of journalling/writing that is quite scattered. I will do my best to make sense of the nonsense.

Secondly, some basic informaton. Grade 12 student at a conservative christian highschool. I claim no absolutely faith at the moment, but I am searching a fair amount. I smoke pot recreationally and done psychedelics twice now. These generally take place in a private setting, rather than a typical "party", as a means of self-reflection and discovery.

Something that's been running through my mind lately is exactly who or what it is that is running me and deciding my thoughts. The few times that I consciously choose to do something it seems that the action happened because I thought of it. Very few of my, or anyone elses, actions are conscious choices though. And for the few that are, I can follow the path from thought to action, but I cannot trace backwards from the thought to figure what caused it.

In most cases my life and actions are just reactions to the environment around me. In the past months I've had a strong desire to have the willpower and control to change more of my reactions into chosen actions, in an attempt to become a more logical, thought-out person, who doesn't react with the first idea that comes to mind. But it occurs to me, who am I to tell myself, my brain, etc, what to think or feel? I say myself, because I have no other word to describe it. It was this lack of word that drove me to wonder, what is it that originally concieved of this idea?

I feel like my desire to control myself is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be second guessing my reactions. Reactions seem purer than my "conscious, logical" decisions.

[theparanoidjunkie]

Also, my username is completely unrealated. It's an old screen name that a generator came up with for me years ago. Feel free to abbrieviate to PJ.

[adriandc]

Ok , you're a perfect person to try this, because you are exactly what I was like, pretty much everything. You are not held up by spiritual dogma, I was the same, I knew nothing about spirituality before seeing this, I mean nothing at all, I just stumbled across a site similar to this.

Now, Ill admit Im already tempted to start engaging in guiding with you , but that will defeat the purpose, the instructions are there, all 4 points, Im convinced if you apply this stuff with real stubborn determination you will crack this. WHENEVER you feel you are slipping , getting bored, confused, anxious, just get back to looking. I really dont want to start engaging in conversation or Q+A , or asking you "guide" like questions. My challenge to you is to crack this on your own. We'll give it a few weeks, if its clearly not working out and you need direction then obviously I will start guiding and we'll consider the experiment a failure, but that problem is for another day!!

So just keep applying these points, stubbornly, all day, as much as you can, dont stop. It is ALL about no self, thats the only thing that matters, not your life story, not my life story, not a debate on pot, not a debate on anything, just the 4 points where you are trying to see there is no you.
GO!! :)

[adriandc]

How's it going for you dude. You trying this stuff?

[jeff007]

Yea, first day reading this stuff. Its great. I've been processing patterns for years, mostly one at a time, sometimes hours a day using pure awareness techniques. For some reason I had to do it the hard way. but coming here and seeing all of this has helped me realized, all is about to change. no turning back now. Thanks!

[adriandc]

Ok cool stuff jeff, would you be interested in trying the experiment?

Theparanoidjunkie seems to have lost interest.

[jeff007]

I've already started

[strostel]

I'm in.

[Dan]

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

[adriandc]

Ok folks, great to see interest. Although what I need is a bit of involvement if thats cool.

The theory is that its possible to crack this guideless, but if you could keep posting here your accounts of how you're getting on, then it would keep you motivated,and it would let me see whos doing what!! :)

Strosel , I see you;re working with someone now so it wouldnt really work with the experiment because I wouldnt know if it worked or not. That said, by all means, post away, and apply the techniques.

Dan, you're already blue :P , but this stuff can be reapplied post gate.

theparanoidjunkie seems to have vanished, possibly a testament as to why my theory may be wrong, and a guide IS needed more than I thought.

But jeff007, I see you're not working with anyone so you'd be a great "test case". Id love to just see is it possible to crack this by using only instructions and a log by the person trying to crack it. Obviously if things are not going well, and its becoming clear that the experiment is failing Ill start a thread and guide you properly. But I dont think thats needed. If you manage to crack it with only those instructions, and absolutely minimal direction from me, you'll have proven something very important!!