If at first you don't succeed

[Ilona]

There is no seeker.
There is a story ABOUT the seeker.
There is a story, that there is something to find.

There is nothing to find.

How does this land?

Sending love.

[chris lewis]

There is no seeker.
There is a story ABOUT the seeker.
There is a story, that there is something to find.

There is nothing to find.

How does this land?

Sending love.

This makes sense. The seeker is the story. All words, ideas, concepts, beliefs running around somewhere, who knows where? All thoughts with an emotional charge to them. The seeker cannot be found, but there is knowledge of a story, and in the story there is constant seeking.

[Ilona]

The seeker is not the story.
Look at how story is created. There is voice in the head talking. Is the voice the seeker? Is it telling the story or listening to it? What is it talking to? Is seeker the one that is talking or voice is talking about the seeker and the seeking?
Does the voice know?
Or voice is known?

Is the voice in the head you?

Sending love.

[chris lewis]

The seeker is not the story.
Look at how story is created. There is voice in the head talking. Is the voice the seeker? Is it telling the story or listening to it? What is it talking to? Is seeker the one that is talking or voice is talking about the seeker and the seeking?
Does the voice know?
Or voice is known?

Is the voice in the head you?

Sending love.

The voice is not the seeker, but it creates seeking, or is at least related to seeking. Even though the voice is not the seeker, it seems there would not be seeking without the voice.
The voice appears to be talking to itself. It is both telling the story and listening to it. This is shown by the fact that emotional charges come with the story. It will say something, then an emotional charge, then it will say something else.
The voice seems to be talking about a seeker
The voice seems to be known, not a knower. It creates experience more than it is experience itself.
The voice in the head is not truly me. It is just a voice talking, creating emotions, and emotional sensations.

[Ilona]

Hi Chris,
Sorry for long silence.
How is it going? What are you working at and what are you noticing?
Please write and we shall carry on.

Love.

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris,
Sorry for long silence.
How is it going? What are you working at and what are you noticing?
Please write and we shall carry on.

Love.

Hi Ilona, I am going to be in the hospital for a few days and so will not be able to use my phone, tablet, etc. We can continue when I get out. Thank you!

[Ilona]

May all go smooth and healing is quick. Wishing you health.

Write when you can!
Sending love

[chris lewis]

May all go smooth and healing is quick. Wishing you health.

Write when you can!
Sending love

Hi ilona, I am feeling better. Lately I have been focusing on what Eckhart Tolls refers to as the "inner body". I have found out difficult to focus on, bit this is where peace, ease, joy and contentment are too be found. It is almost like it in a different " location " from the thinking mind, but the mind is so dominant that it seems impossible to truly access.
It seems the idea of a self is caught up in the mind, yet when one goes to the inner body, there is no self. Yet selfing keeps happening, usually out of habit.

[Ilona]

Great to hear that you are feeling better.
Yes, echart has some ideas about this inner body and pain body and stuff. Can we leave these ideas for now and have a look, is there a line between inner and outer? Is there inside and outside divided by something? What divides?

In experience, do you know where here ends and there begins? See with eyes closed, where is the inside of sound? Inside of touch? Inside of smell?

Investigate this with eyes open as well, do you see inside and outside in the view? When you look at what is looking, what is there?


Selfing habit is happening, but to what?

Sending love.

[chris lewis]

Great to hear that you are feeling better.
Yes, echart has some ideas about this inner body and pain body and stuff. Can we leave these ideas for now and have a look, is there a line between inner and outer? Is there inside and outside divided by something? What divides?

In experience, do you know where here ends and there begins? See with eyes closed, where is the inside of sound? Inside of touch? Inside of smell?

Investigate this with eyes open as well, do you see inside and outside in the view? When you look at what is looking, what is there?


Selfing habit is happening, but to what?

Sending love.

I am finding these concepts hard to grasp. Maybe in a day or two things will clear up and I will have some answers for you. In any case, I will keep you posted on what comes up

[Ilona]

Just look in experience and don't think so much. See what is actually true, what is underneath thinking. Write when you have something.

:)

[chris lewis]

Just look in experience and don't think so much. See what is actually true, what is underneath thinking. Write when you have something.

:)

No, there is no demarcation where something such as inner body begins and the outer starts. At least I cannot find it. The mind will come up with ideas such as "pain is interior to the body" , but there is no proof, per se. There is no where I can say "aha, this is the demarcation line"

[Ilona]

What does that mean? Is there a you and not you in experience?

[chris lewis]

What does that mean? Is there a you and not you in experience?

Sorry I did not answer sooner, I was such in the hospital. Also I found this question difficult to answer.
It seems that saying there's a me in experience conjures up beliefs about what I am, and what I am not. Yet I still experience things, like the sky, that I believe i am not. I also believe that certain things are me, like the body, beliefs, etc.
Things get very confusing from here. Which experiences are truly me, and which aren't? There may take be no line that says " This is me " and "This is not me"

[Ilona]

have a look at everything through this bahiya sutra. Spend your time with it. See, hear, notice...
In the seen, there is only the seen,

in the heard, there is only the heard,

in the sensed, there is only the sensed,

in the cognized, there is only the cognized.

Thus you should see that

indeed there is no thing here;

this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.

Since, Bahiya, there is for you

in the seen, only the seen,

in the heard, only the heard,

in the sensed, only the sensed,

in the cognized, only the cognized,

and you see that there is no thing here,

you will therefore see that

indeed there is no thing there.

As you see that there is no thing there,

you will see that

you are therefore located neither in the world of this,

nor in the world of that,

nor in any place

betwixt the two.

This alone is the end of suffering.



Sending love.