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[0kay]

What else is felt when basic looking for pain and other things?

I feel the aliveness of my body.

This is good to see, onedrop. Some people cannot feel as being in a flow, so a small training about this is recommended for this process.

Let´s have a look for basic listening. The direct pointing method we use here needs simply awareness to what happens now. Sensing about what happens now could lead directly to see the limitless one, feeling the seamless and no-i.

No-i is the absence of thoughts about i. It´s a good feeling, being more relaxed.

So it is recommended to switch off thinking and switch on listening to birds outside the window with nothing special in mind. Easy. If there are no birds the noise from pc or air-conditioning will do the same.

Feel free to lay your feet on the table,relax and close your eyes for listening to what happens now. Listen for a few seconds and see inside your mind what happens.

It´s easy, hm? One more time...

Describe what happened in these seconds of pure listening:

What came to your mind when listening?
Describe the gaps inside what happened.
Was there a feeling of inside or outside?

[onedrop]

What came to your mind when listening?

When I first started to listen there were no thoughts, I was just hearing the sounds. Then after a bit, thoughts about why I was doing this started popping up.

Describe the gaps inside what happened. Was there a feeling of inside or outside?.

There were just sounds which were not interpreted into anything. But also the I felt the energy flow in my body. And also still some pain inside the body.

[0kay]

Yes, onedrop, that was a good examination for the first time.

The question about inside/outside... When a question is unclear please ask, so we can try it again.
Answer to all of the questions, even if the answer is not so clear the first time its good to see who we are.

Basic hearing without thoughts lead to a good feeling. Hearing happens all the time. Not only when there is loud noise, hearing happends when its quiet, too. Noises come, noises go. No need to hold, come and go happens. Silence come, silence go.

As i was in your position a noise generator helped me out a bit. Try it if you like: http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/osmosi ... erator.php

Do some more of this basic hearing, easy, no hurry. Answer when the result is seeing clear.
1) What is felt between the noises, in background?

Do some more of this basic hearing, easy, no hurry, to see this clear:
2) Is there a feeling of inside, outside or whatever?

Do some more of this basic hearing, easy, no hurry, to see this clear:
3) Is there a feeling of time or no time?

Do some more of this basic hearing, easy, no hurry, to see this clear:
4) When thoughts arise, is there an i in every thougt?

Do some more of this basic hearing, easy, no hurry, to see this clear:
5) What appears first, thought or i?

[onedrop]

1) What is felt between the noises, in background?

In the background there is silence.

2) Is there a feeling of inside, outside or whatever?

There's a feeling of inside if I understand correctly what you mean. It feel the aliveness of the body but it doesn't end to my skin though, it does extend somewhat to the outside as well.

3) Is there a feeling of time or no time?

There is no feeling of time.

4) When thoughts arise, is there an i in every thougt?

There seems to be an I in my thoughts. They are about the feelings in my body. I let my thoughts go and then quickly my mind starts trying to tell stories about who I am and they are related to me in this body.

5) What appears first, thought or i?

The I is first in as in the one who is looking through the eyes and is in this body. Then come thoughts which start explaining who I am.

[0kay]

Good, very detailled watching, onedrop.

But was this "i-looking-through-the-eyes" really a basic sense or more a thought about sense?

Let´s see about. You know that not every hearing is true: "I hear a bird" is not basic hearing, but some thoughts could make this from basic hearing: "Noise, silence, noise with silence in background".
In basic hearing there was no i as you found out.

For relaxing and relief let´s see once more if it is the same with basic seeing.
When there are laths and tiles in a special order come into view thoughts could say "I see a chair" even when there is only a picture.

So sit and relax again, no thinking is needed for one more basic viewing in direct experience. The Hand laying on the table or knee. Basic looking for hand.

1) What is seen before thinking makes some hand-form from basic seeing?

2) Basic seeing without a form. Is there an i in the moment of basic seeing?

3) Remember yesterday as you wrote about i-looking-through-eyes:
Is there really an i-looking-through-the-eyes in the remembering or what else happened in remembering?

4) What form had this through-the-eye-looking-i yesterday, how did it look like?

[onedrop]

1) What is seen before thinking makes some hand-form from basic seeing?

I see the colours, outlines, shades, lights and patterns of my skin.

2) Basic seeing without a form. Is there an i in the moment of basic seeing?

No there is no I in the moment when I'm looking at my hand.

3) Remember yesterday as you wrote about i-looking-through-eyes:
Is there really an i-looking-through-the-eyes in the remembering or what else happened in remembering?

I'm sorry, I can't quite understand what you are asking here. Would you mind clarifying this a little please?

4) What form had this through-the-eye-looking-i yesterday, how did it look like?

It didn't seem to have a form. It seems more like an energy. I'm having a hard time describing it with words.

[0kay]

Hi onedrop, question 3 was made by looking at

What appears first, thought or i?

onedrop said: The I is first in as in the one who is looking through the eyes and is in this body. Then come thoughts which start explaining who I am.

So the question is:
1)Can you really remember an "i" in a situation like this or in an other situation?
2) Look back a few days, where in remembered situation is an i?

Lay one finger on your nose, now.

3)Was there a decision of an i which finger to use, which hand?
4)Was there a controlling i lifting the hand to the nose?

It didn't seem to have a form. It seems more like an energy. I'm having a hard time describing it with words.

5) Was an energy (as you described) responsible for lifting the hand to your nose?

[onedrop]

1)Can you really remember an "i" in a situation like this or in an other situation?
2) Look back a few days, where in remembered situation is an i?

I remember an experience of presence but I don't remember that there were any thoughts about the I.

3)Was there a decision of an i which finger to use, which hand?

There was no conscious decision of which hand or finger to use. It was automatic.

4)Was there a controlling i lifting the hand to the nose?

The I didn't seem to control anything. It just happened automatically after I read the sentence.

[0kay]

Good, did the i control thoughts or thoughts first?

I am busy, can answer one or 2 times per day, sorry.

[onedrop]

Good, did the i control thoughts or thoughts first?

I'm having difficulty making the difference between the I and the thoughts. It isn't clear to me if the I controlled the thoughts. At this very moment I'm trying to remember and it looks like thoughts are the I.

I am busy, can answer one or 2 times per day, sorry.

Not to worry, I understand.

[0kay]

Thinking about weather. Is there an i, when does it appear in mind?
Thinking about Santa Claus, is there an i, when does it appear?
Thinking about shopping, is there an i, when does it appear?
Keep aware when an i shows up an if it comes before thoughts or later.

[onedrop]

Thinking about weather. Is there an i, when does it appear in mind?
Thinking about Santa Claus, is there an i, when does it appear?
Thinking about shopping, is there an i, when does it appear?
Keep aware when an i shows up an if it comes before thoughts or later.

When I first read these questions I started getting rather frustrated as there was an I around all the time when thinking about either weather, Santa Claus or shopping. But the I left the questions until today and I realise that the I doesn't show up with these thoughts. It shows up because I have the pain in my chest. So whatever the thoughts the I is still there identified with the pain. An when I got more frustrated, the I was there even more. So it is there before the conscious thoughts I'm thinking. The pain is there almost all the time and when the pain is there, most often the I is there.

[0kay]

Is this really true?
You said before that you looked inside the pain and there was no i. Now you say the i comes with more pain. So first is pain an then somethings says i, i?

Is there really an i or thought or belief or what could it be when no i is in body, pain or thought?

[onedrop]

You said before that you looked inside the pain and there was no i. Now you say the i comes with more pain. So first is pain an then somethings says i, i?

I recall I said that and then it seemed true but today it feels like the pain and I are the same. Even tho from memory I know in my mind that it's not absolutely always there, now it feels unpenetrable and solid.

Is there really an i or thought or belief or what could it be when no i is in body, pain or thought?

When I look now I can't see past the pain.

[0kay]

It looks like the pain wants to pay attention for it.
Is it like pressured skin, contract muscles, some feeling of fear?

If pain is a mix from some of them or more list it and look inside these single items as deep as possible.
What happend to these single items when observed as deep as possible?