I'm ready.

[Cam-RT]

Hey Shivani:

So Answer me this question...

Without the Body...Does Shivani Exist?

[kreoon]

No, because what I consider "me", ( experience, memory, thought, etc) needs a body to exist in. If the body were dead, I would say that I'll be dead too. If my body isn't there, then my thoughts won't be there either.

The body is the liver. I am not the body. So I am not the liver. Logically speaking this makes pefect sense; i am now certain that "i" doesn't exist. But how do I look? Where?

[Cam-RT]

Good morning Shivani...

Excellent... Now again I want you to understand how proud I Am of you for sticking with me through this process ....

The " RT " at the end of my screen name means "Ruthless Truth" , meaning a slightly more brutal approach to this process, where the person is beaten down verbally and the ego is weakened to the point where all is seen...

Stick with me here...and pay paticular attention to this part.

If someone comes up to you and calls you a "worthless piece of shit" or "a fucking idiot" anything that greatly upsets you, the body tenses up and you get angry right? I'm talking about what ever thought that "YOU" identify with, whatever makes that "connection" is where the self resides.

When I say..."Who is?" ------->angry, sad, humiliated ,depressed... All those gut wrenching thoughts are associated with the "Self "... These prominent thoughts whether from your memory, or if someone during your day pisses you off....This is the part where you must notice these feelings and ask yourself "Who's offended??"

If the the self Is seen for what it is (nothing but thought) then these feeling are seen for what they are.....nothing.

Practice this a bit... Even go back time to some very humiliating memories...Tell me do you feel that connection?

[kreoon]

Alright, let me try this for a day or two, although I doubt I'll see anything.

[kreoon]

There is identification with thoughts. Thoughts seem to be arising from me, or at the very least for me. I am the combination of mind/body.

[Cam-RT]

Okay, But who is " I " ??

Go into it...be scientific..is it real??

[kreoon]

I think I've made some progress. Are you saying that the body I see in the mirror isn't mine? It's just the sight of a body and some sensations?

[Cam-RT]

The body is only a temporary "vessel" that nurtures and transports the brain in which your "life-force" resides, at least until the body dies.

My question was...Within your thoughts, does an " I " or a me Exist? Who is " I " ???

[kreoon]

I've tried observing in daily life, and I really don't know who this "I" is. It could exist or not, how am I supposed to know? Most of the time the I seems to be formless when I'm actively observing and only comes back normally when I"m not looking.
So far reality(daily life) seems the way it's always been, and I don't get the sense that it could be an illusion.
I've been looking pretty much all the time, and it's getting a bit straining to "look" because I never see anything I'm supposed to be seeing.

[Cam-RT]

no need to strain to look.,if the self is a thought ,and is formless then it doesn't exist right?

[kreoon]

yes logically that makes perfect sense, but I can't seem to see the truth in this. To be honest, I'm not sure the self is a thought.
If there is no self, then what binds the mind,body, individual thoughts, personality, etc together?

[Cam-RT]

excluding personality and memory (stuff you've learned ) what's left ? remember the body is only temporary ...

[Cam-RT]

shivani think about it "we own nothing..."

[Cam-RT]

just another reason to cherish the moment ;-)

[Cam-RT]

how can the self exist scientificaly if it's just a thought structure?