Could someone help me?

[mynameisnand]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand, at least intellectually, that the idea of a self that exists behind the eyes — a self that controls events or has a fixed life story — is an illusion created by the brain. And that it’s possible to see through this illusion by having a first direct glimpse of reality as it truly is, without the veil of that same illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking to remove the veil of the self, even if only for a few seconds, to see what is truly behind it. I believe I’ve already understood intellectually, but I haven’t yet seen through direct experience the fact that I don’t exist.

Beyond the deep curiosity I have to experience reality without filters, I believe that seeing for the first time in practice that "I" and my personal story are not as real as they seem could bring some benefits, like greater meaning or perhaps even the end of suffering.

I’m completely fascinated by spirituality, science, philosophy, and self-knowledge, and having the opportunity to be in a space where I can finally see — through direct experience — what I’ve been seeking for so many years would be incredible. It would also allow me to help a friend who’s also interested in spirituality and shares my fascination with nonduality.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope that, just like some guided meditations I’ve done before, the LU guide can point directly to the truth using words, and that from there I might have an insight that leads me to cross the gate. How would the guide do that? I don’t know — maybe through the direction our conversation naturally takes, or through intuition. I have good expectations, and I think the idea behind the project is absolutely necessary nowadays.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve practiced samatha/vipassana meditation on and off for a few years. Currently, I do self-inquiry every night before sleep using the question “Who am I?”, and I’m also interested in starting an asana and pranayama practice as a more gradual approach to awakening, as soon as I’m able to.

As for seeking, I’ve been reading about spirituality since 2018, starting with the book The Power of Now. Since then, I’ve done six years of cognitive-behavioral therapy alongside reading various books (including Liberation Unleashed) on Buddhism and spirituality in general, to help me realize the ultimate truth I’ve long been interested in.

At this point, I find myself in a situation where I’ve read a lot about no-self, but I haven’t yet seen it in practice — at least not in the way I hope to.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

It sounds like you have made a good start in some ways. I would like you to read this article before we get started.

Go to Resources tab & read "Direct Pointing vs "Who AM i?"

I would give you a link, but it isn't copying.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[mynameisnand]

Hello Stacy, you can call me Fernando, and yes, I would love for you to be my guide.

I confirm that I’ve read the article you sent called "Direct Pointing vs 'Who Am I?'". I found it very interesting, as I wasn’t aware of the differences between the two methods.

I also confirm that I’ve read the Disclaimer.

Now, answering the blue questions you asked:

1. How will life change?
I believe my mind and the interpretations I give to the world will no longer dictate how I feel or behave. I will feel more satisfaction in everyday tasks, have less fear and less apprehension in social interactions, and feel more secure and grounded in reality instead of being caught in the chatter of the mind and thoughts.

2. How will you change?
I believe that seeing through the illusion of the self directly can help me identify less with thoughts, interpretations, and the mental representations I give to the things happening around me. This would help me connect more with what is real, not with what I believe is real. I also believe I’ll become more mature, more realistic, and less defensive when faced with life's situations.

3. What will be different?
Not having a self to defend or protect will certainly be one of the greatest reliefs I could experience, because I feel that I currently spend most of my day doing exactly that — defending, protecting, thinking, ruminating, and embellishing the story of a "me" that I’ve already intellectually recognized doesn’t exist and is nothing more than an illusion. Because of that, I believe I will become more flexible and open to life’s challenges, no longer locked inside my inner world filled with imagined problems and fabricated stories.

4. What is missing?
What’s missing is purpose, meaning, and maturity. Despite many years of therapy, obsessive reading about spirituality and psychology, meditation, and a lot of effort, I’ve never been able to see any truly meaningful change in my life. I still consider myself the same egocentric person, full of mental problems and fabricated narratives, watching life pass by while wasting time engaging with them. In addition, I’ve never caught even a glimpse of the reality that spiritual teachings point to, which leaves me frustrated and even doubting myself and the whole process at times.

[mynameisnand]

Oops, I've forgotten to tell you... I'm at UTC-3 timezone, which is Brazil's official timezone. Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Fernando

From my first post above:


Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

This will be important for 2 reasons:

1. I read these on my phone.

2. Other guides will read your answers to checkpoint questions later.

Thank you,

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

So. Your expectations are fairly reasonable, but seeing that there's no self will not automatically solve all of your problems. This is just a beginning.


Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[mynameisnand]

Hi again Stacy. I'm sorry, I hadn't understood the rules on quoting, but now I think I got it. Please let me know if I'm committing any mistake.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed

I feel relieved to know that there is no self and no life story. Knowing this makes me realize that much of what I’ve thought, got anxious about and ruminated on were just illusions, and that reality is much more stable, calm, and joyful than my mind ever made it seem.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Fernando

That sounds good.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[mynameisnand]

Hi Stacy. I think I understood well what you were trying to explain. It’s not about looking for or thinking of a mental answer to the exercises and questions you’ll ask, but about looking in direct experience — that is, through the senses (sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch) — for the no-self.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, except there is no "no-self." There's just nothing.

Here us your first practice.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[mynameisnand]

Hi Stacy. I'm not sure if I understood exactly how to do the exercise, but I'll write my first response below and you can tell me if it's correct, okay?

~ Writing on the computer ~

Seeing the computer, simply= image/color
Smelling the scent of rain, simply = smell
Feeling the computer on my belly, simply = sensation
nothing, simply = taste
Hearing raindrops, simply = sound
Thought about if I'm doing this exercise the right way, simply = thought

~ Sitting in my store ~

Seeing the products on the shelf, simply= image/color
Smelling the snack I'm eating, simply = smell
Feeling my jacket on my body, simply = sensation
Tasting the flavour of the snack, simply = taste
Hearing the cars passing by, simply = sound
Thoughts about awakening and enlightenment, simply = thought

~ Riding my bycicle ~
Seeing the landscape filled with cars passing, trees and people, simply= image/color
Smelling the scent of pure air, simply = smell
Feeling my hands on the handlebar, simply = sensation
nothing, simply = taste
Hearing the cars passing by, people talking and the sound of my bycicle, simply = sound
Thoughts about things that happened during the day, simply = thought

~ Eating dinner ~
Seeing the plate with rice, beans and nuggets, simply= image/color
Smelling the food on the plate, simply = smell
Feeling my body sitting on the chair, simply = sensation
Tasting the rice and beans, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the fork tapping on the plate, simply = sound
Thinking that the nuggets don't have enough salt, simply = thought

~ Drinking water ~
Seeing the fridge, simply= image/color
nothing, simply = smell
Feeling my lips on the cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the cold of the water, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the fridge, simply = sound
nothing, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

Yes! You've got it.

Everything on the left is a story & labels. Everything on the right is as close as we can come to Direct Experience. DE is actually wordless.

Now this:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[mynameisnand]

Hello Stacy!

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Both ways in which the experiences were labeled seem okay to me; the difference is that one highlights the self experiencing the experience and the other does not. I don’t think one is more true than the other—they’re just different ways of describing the same situation.

2. What is here without labels?

Just pure experience, without the interference of the mind and its stories.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels affect the experience because they can influence how I think or react to a given situation. For example, if I label the experience as bad or negative, I may have emotions that match those labels.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

No, I didn't.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. It is truer without "I" which is a made up story.

Labels don't change anything.

Let's go deeper into both of those. First this:



Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[mynameisnand]

What is found?

I remembered the time I lied to my sister while she was having dinner, back in 2012. What I felt was a tightness in the heart area, just like you described.

Do you see that?

Yes. What I felt was a pressure in the heart area, but it was also accompanied by a sensation of guilt, which might as well be my interpretation of the sensation.