Do-er Attachment

[TipTop01]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? My understanding is there is no actor, do-er, experiencer, notice-er. There is only acting, doing, experiencing, noticing. However this is an intellectual understanding as in spite of this & experiences of deep silence I still grapple with the ‘I’ believing it has caused events to come to pass.

What are you looking for at LU? ore periods of deep silence without the ‘I’ evaluating experience. An uptick in the capacity to accept the present & a welcoming of the experience. And a dropping away of the attachment to the do-er belief.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Unexpectedly challenging questions that encourage deep looking. A fast pace with daily prompts to look & report what I actually find. Frustration mostly likely but I can only welcome this also. Authentic dialogue to distill out the experience from the story surrounding it.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Meditation practice, retreats, yoga practice, catholic upbringing. Habitual seeking I suppose. If the seeking stops there may be more free time!

Over the past 18 months I have met twice a week with a direct inquiry partner. This has been a compelling experience which has become too intellectually driven & I am hoping the guiding will pull us both back from this tendency.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Lubo]

Hi there,
Welcome to the forum!
My name is Lubo, and I’d be happy to be your guide—if that feels okay for you.
What name you prefer to call you?

“And a dropping away of the attachment to the do-er belief.”

This is a beautiful direction.

Here’s something you can try:

Gently connect with your solar plexus, and from there, notice:

“I love my current situation and how life is unfolding.”

“I love the way thoughts and emotions appear.”

“I love the way the body moves.”

Stay with that noticing until the whole system begins to soften.
That may take an hour… or a week.

And then, when that softening happens, gently notice:

Is there a persona running the show?

Is there a persona at all?

Is there a do-er?

Is there someone who was ever born?

I am with you!

Love,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

Hello Lubo, I am excited & grateful to embark on the path with you, thank you. You can call me Tip.

I had a little look again & this is what was found.

Is there a persona running the show?

As I notice I am also filing my nails. I’m sorry I know this deserves full attention but maybe this is the way for me right now. Anyway as I notice my actions - I have a habit of running my nails over my fingertips. If my nails are too long I notice unpleasantness. Do ‘I’ touch the nail to the fingertip? No, it seems to be happening without any conscious decision.

Is there a persona at all?

Persona makes me think of the story attached to Tip. The past, family, job etc. but is it a discreet entity? No it is a narrative that we construct in order to co-exist in society. It is useful like a code to simplify some of the complexities of living together such as she is female he is male. She is a potential mate for him.

Is there a do-er?

Having said that as I wrote this I went online to check for tickets for a show tonight. It’s sold out. Tip felt annoyance, disappointment with Tip for not checking earlier & planning ahead to buy tickets. The lack of action caused emotion. So a cause & effect situation.

Is there someone who was ever born?

A body was born, the body is real. The body moved towards the nipple to feed from the mother. The body responded to cold, heat, dark, light. Was there a someone responding, no I see the responses as hard wired instincts that the brain causes to occur without a do-er. But I do find a conflict when I come to more complex situations such as choosing or believing I am choosing to act or not act.

[Lubo]

Hi Tip,
Thanks for the reply.

"A body was born, the body is real."

Notice that the body appears real only when we focus on it.
When we're caught in an emotion or a story, the body disappears from the experience.
Look here—in this sharing,("A body was born, the body is real.") there’s no experience of blood, flesh, or bones, right?
What’s experienced is the story and the emotion, not the physical body?

"Tip felt annoyance, disappointment with Tip for not checking earlier & planning ahead to buy tickets. The lack of action caused emotion. So a cause & effect situation."

Now notice this:
Nothing can actually cause emotions.
Emotions are already here—only thoughts come afterward to tell a story about why they’re here.

Can you sense the shift?

Look again:
No one can cause anger or sadness.
They arise from within.
Is it possible for someone to bring forth something in you… if it’s not already in you?

Take a moment to reflect, and share what comes up when you read this.

Much love,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

Lubo,

Thanks for the reply. In response:

Notice that the body appears real only when we focus on it.

The physical body experiences sensations. Attention can cycle through each of the senses individually. They do not seem to be experienced simultaneously or continuously. I can taste but if I do not bring the attention to it I am not tasting continuously.

Now notice this:
Nothing can actually cause emotions.
Emotions are already here—only thoughts come afterward to tell a story about why they’re here.

the lack of action had an effect in that an experience did not occur due to the lack of action. As the experience did not occur there was disappointment. The emotion came to the fore. The emotion is there & the event causes it to become heightened.

No one can cause anger or sadness.
They arise from within.
Is it possible for someone to bring forth something in you… if it’s not already in you?

right, the idea being we can choose how we respond to events. I chose to feel disappointment. Alternatively I may choose to not feel disappointment.

Tip

[Lubo]

Tip,

You are here to discover that the body, the human, and all of life are a manifestation of God—of You.
You are the Life Force itself.

“The physical body experiences sensations.”

Let’s stay with this for a moment:
What if we see it not as “the body experiences sensations”,
but rather: the body is sensations.

Can you feel the shift?

The body doesn’t experience sensations.
What we call "body" is the experience—of sensations, pressure, movement, warmth, etc.
There’s no “thing” behind it. There is just experience.

So this idea of "the body/human experiences the body/human" collapses.

Try saying:
“I am the experience ‘body/human’.”
Now notice —
Is that experience someone?


Wake up!

You are not alone,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

Lubo,

I would like to be a manifestation of a jedi rather than god.

Try saying:
“I am the experience ‘body/human’.”

some fear. And some disappointment - if that is all there is? then what? Feels like a dead end without possibility of any unknowns as the sensations are so familiar. Having said that there are possibilities of learning about the nuances of sensation from increased attention….that sounds like the mind tempering feeling silly about finding disappointment.

Now notice —
Is that experience someone?

no, it’s just a body. A piece of meat that a predator would enjoy.

[Lubo]

Hey Tip,

“No, it’s just a body. A piece of meat that a predator would enjoy.”

Now notice: Are you experiencing this idea… or the body itself?
Really—look again.

You are NOT the body.

Do you have any direct experience of meat, blood, bones—the way you experience emotions?
No. What you have is a thought that says “this is a body” or “this is meat.”

Notice how you’re still stuck in the idea that there is a body that exists independently.
And now you're trying to confirm that this body still exists, even without you.
But no—it doesn’t.

That belief left.

LOOK again—directly.
What is here without the idea “there is a body that exist?
You are Vast!
Love,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

Lubo,

My latest findings.

You are NOT the body.

This may be so but I can not help but think seeing occurs through eyes located on the front of the body. All the senses are located on the body & the senses are the experience of the world. The body is a moving structure of sensory experience.

What is here without the idea “there is a body that exist?

I drink water from a glass, the water enters the body & becomes part of the body. Previous to drinking the water the water was in the glass. After drinking the water the water is part of the body. The water is both outside the body & inside the body.

I am in air. Air is made up of gases. I am in the body. The body is made up of gases. When I inhale air becomes part of the body. When I exhale the breath becomes part of the air. I can breathe in my surroundings & I can breathe out my surroundings.

Not sure if noticing this alters my point of view about the body or not.

Tip

[Lubo]

Hi there Tip,

I'm still waiting for you to say:
“Hey Lubo, help me get rid of this idea that there’s a body… and the idea that there’s a persona suffering in life.”

Because as long as you're defending the existence of the body and the persona—writing to me as if they're real—I’m not sure you’re really here to see.

So stay with this.
Why are you here?
What do you want to be free from?

These questions, if you let them land deeply, can lead you to the truth within yourself—without needing any answer from the outside.

Let’s walk in that direction.

Be completely honest with yourself.
Why are you here?
At first, the answer might come as a desire to achieve something. That’s okay—but it’s not the truth. That’s just the surface.

Go beyond that.

Ask again:
Why am I really, really here?
What am I truly looking for?

And from that place of honesty, I can help you. I can guide you.

Warmly,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

Hi Lubo,

So, the kick in the ass has come. I appreciate it.

Why are you here?

ok, so obviously how I have been approaching this is not working & I need to take a different tack. What have I been doing so far? Approaching this directly, I suppose, facing it so to speak….not sure if this makes sense but I spent a few hours mulling this over….reluctant to say ‘thinking about the questions’ but mulled them over & arrived here….this is like a hint or a glimmer that I could turn sideways & not face the question directly more like approaching an animal, crouch down, turn my body sideways & stretch out my hand to see if they will sniff my hand….I can do that I can turn sideways & wait for a response.

ask the question again.

Why are you here?

Immediately experience emotion, label the emotion sadness but this is of no importance……why am I here?…..right now the answer comes that I am here to feel…..more emotion……why am I here? There is another word that comes & it is understanding……more emotion…..I am here to understand.

What do you want to be free from?

And let’s look to see if there is any response to the question about freedom. The word freedom has a lot attached to it, freedom is a big ask, freedom feels like there will be some heavy lifting to get there…..what about crouching down beside freedom to see what freedom has to offer…..who am I to ask for freedom….how can I believe I am not already free when I live a free life with no restraints on my freedom…..more emotion….sideways, approach from the side….what do I want to be free from? knowing, I am asking for freedom from what I know…..freedom from the limitations of what is known to uncover the unknown…..this is what I am seeking to be free from....freedom from holding limiting beliefs to truly experience what's unknown.

Tip

[Lubo]

Now you’re starting to work!

Immediately experience emotion, label the emotion sadness but this is of no importance……why am I here?…..right now the answer comes that I am here to feel…..more emotion……why am I here? There is another word that comes & it is understanding……more emotion…..I am here to understand.

Yes, you're here to feel emotions.
But even “to feel” already points to a layer of resistance, of limitation.

I want to invite you to go deeper—to become the emotion.

Try this for 30-60 min:
“I am sad for myself—not because of life, or a story, or anyone else. I am simply sad about myself.”

What reveals itself in that?

“This is what I am seeking to be free from... freedom from holding limiting beliefs to truly experience what's unknown.”

Yes—holding emotions with limiting beliefs.

Beautiful.

Now notice: emotions are not a prison.
They are the release.
They liberate.
We are the unleashed emotion itself—the life force in motion.

Go ahead.
Share what’s coming now.
How is your experience shifting?
How is your view of life starting to change?

So much love to you,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

Hi Lubo, I am working on this. Tip.

[Lubo]

Ok. Take your time.
Love,
Lubo

[TipTop01]

“I am sad for myself—not because of life, or a story, or anyone else. I am simply sad about myself.”

What reveals itself in that?

sitting quietly looking sideways feel warm, wetness around the eyes temporarily….this passes…mind distracts me from the exercise….this happens temporarily……more distraction…..thoughts come about stories…..they pass….more distraction….the sadness is present & not much else it seems….found resistance….sadness is there but nothing else I can report

Kept coming back to it, still found resistance.

Tip