I'm new here

[fightthegoodfight]

Hi,

My name is Tim, I have been reading "occult" or "esoteric" literature for a few years by various different people from differing backgrounds and they all seem to be different paths to the same thing. Self realisation, awakening, enlightenment are just a handful of words I deem to be describing the same thing. I found out about this site by accident and I find the idea incredible. Is there anybody amongst you reds who would be willing to be my guide?

[Eloratea]

Hello Tim!

If you are ready to leave aside your preconceived expectations about awakening and be open and absolutely honest in this inquiry, we can start.

You have to begin to look within, past the thoughts and feelings, just simply look into here and now; directly.
Than tell me what is real right now? Is there you in that category?

[fightthegoodfight]

Hello Eloratea

Thank you for your response. It seems that whenever I try and look into the here and now, past thoughts and feelings.
"I" always pops back in after a very short space of time. At first there is a peace of mind, then a barrage of thoughts and worries as usual. I don't know what is real, I haven't for what seems a long time.

[Eloratea]

"I" always pops back in after a very short space of time.

How „I“ pops back? What is „I“ that pops back? Describe it.

At first there is a peace of mind, then a barrage of thoughts and worries as usual.

Ok, experience changes, thoughts come and go, but is there you? What happens if there is no belief in thoughts, just looking how everything arises in the experience here and now?

I don't know what is real.

Is there anything you van be absolutely sure of right now in this very moment?

Warm greetings!

[fightthegoodfight]

Hi Eloratea

How „I“ pops back? What is „I“ that pops back? Describe it.

I would describe the "I" as the machine that grabs the thought and analyses it and in turn with the help of the body, creates a feeling about the thought subject in hand. Often a pang in the gut.

I'm working on passing the thought over as false. Should I grab it and analyse it or discard it and move back to seeking quiet in the mind.

Is there anything you van be absolutely sure of right now in this very moment?

I am sure that my body is alive and organic, has vital organs and breathes in the air. I am sure that my eyes see and I have senses that experience my surroundings. I am unsure of Tim's perception of these things. I am sure of some conflict within

[Eloratea]

I would describe the "I" as the machine that grabs the thought and analyses it and in turn with the help of the body, creates a feeling about the thought subject in hand. Often a pang in the gut.

If I say that there is no you in reality, that „I“ is just a thought; and it can't do anything – what comes up?

I am sure that my body is alive and organic, has vital organs and breathes in the air. I am sure that my eyes see and I have senses that experience my surroundings. I am unsure of Tim's perception of these things. I am sure of some conflict within

Here is too much thinking and adding up to pure direct perception.
What makes the body „your“ body?
Is there you breathing or the breathing is?
Look, don't think!

[fightthegoodfight]

Firstly, belief in what you say is not a problem. But how to lost the petty attachments that come with the "I" that have built up over years. How to kill it?

What makes the body „your“ body?
Is there you breathing or the breathing is?
Look, don't think!

This is obvious when you point it out. The breathing just is. The body is a body, it doesn't belong to "me".
The body can live without the ego, the same way any animal on the food chain can and does.

[Eloratea]

Firstly, belief in what you say is not a problem.

Don't believe, check for yourself. Look right now in your experience.

But how to lost the petty attachments that come with the "I" that have built up over years. How to kill it?

Conditioned behavior dissolves by seeing it. And to see it you have to look. Clear the mind from beliefs. Start from belief in separate self. Is there you separate from life?

This is obvious when you point it out. The breathing just is. The body is a body, it doesn't belong to "me".
The body can live without the ego, the same way any animal on the food chain can and does.

How it is with seeing, hearing, walking, thinking?
Watch the process how thoughts assign doership to imaginary self where there are pure processes happening.

[fightthegoodfight]

Hello Eloratea,

I was walking to work this morning trying to shut down thoughts and just experience the walk. My legs move without help from "me". My eyes let in light, and ears, noise. For some of the journey it felt as if everything was as it should be, I had a direction to walk, it required no thought processes. I felt calm and peaceful... then I started labeling things; tree, car, noise of a bike etc. Whereas before I was seeing a tree and it just was what it was, my mind then was forcing me to identify what things were, I tried to shut this process off and quieten the mind again, which worked in the stopping of automatic labels, but I was unable to find the initial peace of mind again.

On reflection of this, I can see that the "I" is almost a kind of bully, forcing me to use energy on unnecessary thoughts, causing the feeling of a split from everything else.
I feel I am making some progress, if somewhat slow progress.

[Eloratea]

Hello Tim,

I was walking to work this morning trying to shut down thoughts and just experience the walk.

So was there self walking, or body was simply moving?
Was there you to control thoughts or thoughts were fighting each other?
Keep looking next morning when going to work :)

On reflection of this, I can see that the "I" is almost a kind of bully, forcing me to use energy on unnecessary thoughts, causing the feeling of a split from everything else.

Yes, belief in reality of this particular „I“ thought wastes lots of energy creating lots of confusion. But fortunately belief in thoughts is not obligatory. Make use of this.

Warm regards!

[fightthegoodfight]

So was there self walking, or body was simply moving?

No, there is no self walking. There is illusion of self due to the thought processes that are happening.
Very strange feelings in the gut today, and slightly light headed. Thoughts were fighting each other for attention.
When grabbing hold of any thought and in fact any memory of recent thoughts, they are all subjective. i.e. a memory of an experience or person, or what someone said. If not a memory then it was a thought that was about what I ought to be doing in the near future. None of these are real thoughts. They are a catalogue of a culmination of experience.

[Eloratea]

Good, keep digging; what is self? is it real? is it necessary for any of the life processes?
Is there a thinker, a controller of life?
Is there your life or it is just life plus bunch of thoughts compiled by the illusion in a continuous story?
Is there real entity behind the little voice in the head?

[fightthegoodfight]

what is self? is it real? is it necessary for any of the life processes?

Self is the illusion created by a catalogue of memories of experiences, therefore not real life. Similar to computer program that randomly discharges electrical signals that are decoded as sequences of memory. Virtual reality. This is happening all throughout life, building the story into a web that gets more and more complex, the more it is weaved.
"I" don't think. Thoughts happen and "I" dwells on them.

None of the life processes require the self, no animal needs an ego to live.

The voice in the head is very convincing, but it's not real. Just an electrical impulse.

[Eloratea]

Can you explain a bit more how "I" dwells on thoughts?

[fightthegoodfight]

Hello Eloratea,

In answer to your question; no, I can't explain anymore about the "I" that dwells on thoughts. "I" is the thoughts, which aren't real. The thoughts and "I" are the same thing.

I drank too much last night and it felt like I was watching myself...