Now Until Now

[Nate55]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
self is made up of constructs and conditioned to be a somebody, a conceptual invention separate and disconnected. We were not born this way

What are you looking for at LU?
Ultimately I'm looking for Peace and Freedom. I have such a difficult time going thru any process on my own and so appreciate help seeing thru self and finding Fundamental Wellbeing. I've been a participant in Scott Kiloby's group, POK, The Awakening Curriculum and The Balanced View. I viewed all the many therapists as guides getting me thru life. Now at 69, I'm looking for the bullseye, nothing is as important now...

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'd like to come in free from expectations & be collaborative offering as much honesty & clarity as I can. I would expect a sincere honest guide embodied in Love & understanding. I feel I'm a tricky, slippery one having had a most traumatic upbringing, pre verbal. A good match for me might include one who is not overly talkative, trauma informed...but i understand that the way it comes for me is probably not going to come the way I think it should. Haha

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started meditation at 17, had what I'll call a non-abiding Awakening.Had no clue what was happening, ego wasn't ready to give up the struggle. Years later I found realized teachers who were speaking about the experience I had! MDMA sessions offered full clarity and Well-Being, A few group sessions offered immense heart openings and profound universal wisdom. All viewed and accepted as experiences.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Maylson]

Hello, I’m May, and I’ll be guiding you through this process.

Before we begin, what name would you like me to use for you?

You said:

"Ultimately I'm looking for Peace and Freedom."

Stop right now.

Before going any further, who exactly is looking?

Not as a theory. Not as a spiritual idea.
In this exact moment, can you locate the one who's seeking peace?

Don’t answer with thoughts, look at your actual experience:

Is there anything here except a desire, some sensations in the body, and a thought about someone wanting?

You also said:

"I’ve had a most traumatic upbringing, pre-verbal."

Yes. And trauma leaves imprints.
But hear this clearly:
Trauma does not create a self.
It fuels the story of a self.

Right now, look:
Where is the “traumatized I/Self”?
Can it be found anywhere outside of thought?

Or is it just thoughts + sensations + labels?

This might be the most honest thing you said:

"I understand that the way it comes for me is probably not going to come the way I think it should."

Good. Hold onto that.
Because the truth never looks the way we expect.

So look again, freshly:

Can you find a separate “I” that is doing life?
Or is life just happening, effortlessly, without anyone running it?
Breath happens...
Thoughts happen...
Sensations arise...
Emotion moves through...

Where’s the controller? Where’s the one who needs to wake up?

This is it.
There’s no peace coming in the future.
No freedom waiting for you once you “see through self.”

Because there was never a self to begin with.

Look now.
What did you think was “you”?

What do you see now?

What’s left, when you stop imagining?

Speak from what’s raw and unfiltered, right now. Not from your thoughts, but from your direct experience!

[Nate55]

Thank you May. I find it neat that my favorite Aunt's name is May and I'm now living in her old house. I'm going to sit w/ what you sent me before responding....mostly because I have no words to describe my experience. Thank you!

[Maylson]

Glad to hear that something resonated. There's no need for words right now, often, the direct experience is beyond language. Just sit with what’s here, without needing to explain or understand.

What’s left when you simply observe, without grasping for an answer?

I'm here if you want to explore more, whenever you're ready!

[Nate55]

Hi May, well, I've been presented with this inquiry before but when I sit with your questions, it's kinda like a deer in the headlights, or maybe confronting the Gate. Sometimes there's emotion like sorrow that wants to flow out for weeks , speaking from my direct experience I'm still, welcome whatever's here, and move on not knowing.... Yes I get trauma does not create a self and I see how I've created an identity of victimhood and one who deserves justice all my life. Many of my stories & reactions are based around this. 'I' am soo ready to let it all fall away. I printed out what you sent me and feel I could inquire into this for months, but working with you daily is recommended. I sense an urgency. Thank you

[Nate55]

I keep forgetting, you asked me what I want to be called. I've never been attached to Mark or any other name but Mark is fine

[Maylson]

Hey, Mark! How are you?

Before we continue, to make communication easier here, take a look at how to use this quote tool — this will be necessary for you to respond to the questions I ask by quoting them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ

[Maylson]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for such an open response.

You said something important:

“speaking from my direct experience I'm still, welcome whatever's here, and move on not knowing.... ”

That’s gold, right there.

Not knowing.
Not fixing.
Not figuring anything out.
Just being with what is.

And yet, notice, there’s still a familiar storyline spinning:

“I had a hard story… I’ve been a victim… I deserve justice…”

Yes, it hurts.
Yes, it was lived.
But here’s the essential question:

Is there a fixed, solid someone who lived all that… or are there just memories, thoughts, images and sensations?

Close your eyes for a moment and look:
Who exactly lived that life?
Can you find this "someone" now?

Or is what appears just thoughts + bodily sensations + labels?

Right now...
Is there anyone here holding these stories?
Or are they simply appearing, like clouds moving through the sky?

You said:

“I’m sooo ready to let it all fall away.”

Perfect.
But look closely: it’s not you who will let it fall away.
You are what falls away.

And that’s what feels both terrifying… and deeply freeing.

So here’s the next question:

Without using words, concepts, or stories, what exactly are you, right now?

If anything shows up as an answer, check:
Is it a thought? A sensation? An image?

Then ask again:
— What is seeing this?
— This “seeing”... does it have a shape? Is it separate from what is seen?

Sit with that.
Don’t try to get it “right.”
Just see. Just be here.

Tell me what shows up, raw, unfiltered. I’m right here with you.

[Nate55]

Is there a fixed, solid someone who lived all that… or are there just memories, thoughts, images and sensations?

What seems fixed is a program, yes memories, stories, sensations,reactions) that pops out daily. Nothing solid but exhausting.

Close your eyes for a moment and look: Who exactly lived that life?
Can you find this "someone" now?

[Nate55]

May, 80% of my last response didnt go thru!?

[Maylson]

Hey Mark!

It looks like part of your message didn’t come through, only a small bit showed up.
You can try again!
A tip: it might help to write your reply first in Word or a notes app on your device. That way you can make sure everything’s there, then just copy, paste, format things like quotes, and send. This forum can be a bit buggy sometimes!

[Nate55]

And yet, notice, there’s still a familiar storyline spinning:
“I had a hard story… I’ve been a victim… I deserve justice…”
Yes, it hurts. Yes, it was lived.
But here’s the essential question:
Is there a fixed, solid someone who lived all that… or are there just memories, thoughts, images and sensations?

Yes, memories, thoughts, sensations…yet what feels fixed is…this weight, a blockage, a mental/emotional constipation .

Close your eyes for a moment and look: Who exactly lived that life? Can you find this "someone" now?

No, sleepy, body somewhat active energetically., thoughts, labels.

Right now... Is there anyone here holding these stories? Or are they simply appearing, like clouds moving through the sky?

A body to holding energies…

Without using words, concepts, or stories, what exactly are you, right now?

………thoughts ,sensation, image…

Ask, What is seeing this? — This “seeing”... does it have a shape? Is it separate from what is seen?

It’s like the eyes are empty of everything, nowhere to look, the gut holds Fear… how to let go..

[Maylson]

Hey Mark!

Something important is revealing itself here.
The body feels fear. There's a weight, a blockage, a kind of energetic tension in the gut. And along with that comes the thought: "how to let go?"

But… what if there's actually nothing to let go of?

Instead of trying to get rid of it, see if you can just be with what’s here.
No labels. No urgency. No fixing.

Just look directly at this fear…
…without turning it into a problem.
Without making it “yours.”

You said “the gut holds Fear” beautiful honesty.
But now look even more closely:
Is that fear saying “I am Mark”?
Does it have a name?
Is it owned by anyone?
Or is it just another raw sensation, appearing on its own?

And when you say “this weight feels fixed”, can we gently ask:
Is anyone actually holding it?

Or is it simply a familiar feeling, and then thoughts come in, trying to wrap a story around it, trying to give it a center?

Maybe there’s no need to “let go.”
Maybe what we call “blockage” just wants to be fully felt…
…without resistance, without ownership, without a name.

Like a cloud drifting across the sky
It doesn’t need to be pushed.
It just moves.

[Nate55]

Hi May, I can sit with all that's happening....I know where the stories can go and tired of that. Much of the time I'll drift asleep, good if I can get some deep sleep. Other times there's alertness, stairing ahead...seeing ,hearing, feeling the facts...Attended David Bonny's meeting today, very insightful & on point! Remembering to relax the head , it gets so tense & future oriented....I don't know much here May, thank you for holding my hand here! Mark

[Maylson]

Mark, let’s sit together for a moment, calmly and honestly. No need to search or fix anything. Just notice what’s happening right now.

Without going into thought, without reaching into past or future:

What’s here?
Feel the body. Notice sounds. Breath. Pressure. Tingling. Warmth. Whatever is present, let it be exactly as it is.

Now stay with me gently.

You say, “I see,” “I feel,” “I experience”… but who exactly is seeing? Who is feeling?

Look carefully, not with your mind, but with your attention.

Is there a center? A location? A someone? A “you” in here anywhere? Or is it just seeing happening, hearing happening, sensations appearing all on their own?

Is there really a “Mark” experiencing this? Or is that just a thought, a mental label, floating like all the others?

Notice what happens when you don’t follow any thought, when you don’t believe any story for a moment.

What’s left?

Stillness? Aliveness? Just this moment, free of ownership?

Now, with total honesty and zero pressure:

Is there a separate self anywhere in this moment? A controller? A doer? Or just life unfolding effortlessly, silently, without a center?

Let it settle. Don’t answer fast. You’re not figuring it out. You’re seeing it.

I’m right here with you. Let me know what’s seen.