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[Anand12]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is one source operating everywhere

What are you looking for at LU?
A forum for awakwning, spiritual pursuit and development regarding this. And also gathering with like minded, seekers around the globe, which will help to counter the singularity of seeker living at one place and one demography mostly.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A kind of guidance, resonance and spiritual questions get answered or sought together via conversation or silence.
Expectations is some exercises, zoom meetings, works to do as classroom structure and some insights to go beyond thoughts.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am on the path since few couple of years, experience is like i am exposed to youtube and free gathering of teachers of nonduality.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[vinceschubert]

Hi Anand, vince here, i will guide you.
I'll push hard. You be authentic and honest.

There is one source operating everywhere

how do you know this?
let's start with this.. We are not interested in philosophy here. We are only interested in what is actual.
The absolute is unknowable to our puny human senses and plays no part in our experiencing. This experiencing is the only thing that is actual. Absolutely everything else is conceptual (a mind story)
Please disagree with this if you do. i want raw honesty here. How do you feel about what i just said?

vince

[Anand12]

There is one source operating everywhere!

I said this on basis of visiting various teacher of different religious and spiritual tradition, offline and online. I stayed within some Ashram for months and which gave me logical foundation to test the teachings.
Various teachers changed the narrative of spirituality to religious and on that basis declared and predicted a lot which i found failed in timeline.
Been struggling with various material life issues i was also trying various teaching, which helped me in some sort of healing.. and some of them sometimes created more issues Seeing these i felt that source must be one, though teaching appears to very different. And teaching which resonates with source is one, created less nuisance in my life.

[Anand12]

There is one source operating everywhere!

I said this on basis of visiting various teacher of different religious and spiritual tradition, offline and online. I stayed within some ashrams for months and which gave me logical foundation to test the teachings.
Various teachers changed the narrative of spirituality to religious and on that basis declared and predicted a lot which i found failed in timeline.
Been struggling with various material life issues i was also trying various teaching, which helped me in some sort of healing.. and some of them sometimes created more issues Seeing these i felt that source must be one, though teaching appears to very different. And teaching which resonates with source is one, created less nuisance in my life.

[vinceschubert]

I said this on basis of visiting various teacher of different religious and spiritual tradition, offline and online. I stayed within some ashrams for months and which gave me logical foundation to test the teachings.
Various teachers changed the narrative of spirituality to religious and on that basis declared and predicted a lot which i found failed in timeline.
Been struggling with various material life issues i was also trying various teaching, which helped me in some sort of healing.. and some of them sometimes created more issues Seeing these i felt that source must be one, though teaching appears to very different. And teaching which resonates with source is one, created less nuisance in my life.

You said it: the source must be one.

But here’s the cut: Is that source something you discovered… or something you are?

Don’t think. Feel. Check.

All the ashrams, teachings, healers—they layered over the truth. Some soothed the wound. Some deepened it. Why? Because they all danced around their beliefs:

That you are someone who needs fixing.

Look right now—where is that someone?

Look for the struggler. Look for the one with a journey.

Can it be found? In sensation? In direct experience?

Or is there just this? This happening. This life-ing. This swirl of sound, light, sensation—with no center.

Don’t label it. Don’t understand it.

Be it.

Right now: What are you—without a name, a story, a teaching, or a position?

Write from that. Not what you think, but what you see.

Go.

vince

[Anand12]

Without levels

I seems to be nothing!

Just silence..

Thanks for pointing out the belief " something need to be fixed" with that belief, things were coming and dancing around.

[vinceschubert]

Without levels

I seems to be nothing!

Just silence..

Yes.

Don’t move.

Stay right here.

You said it: “I seems to be nothing.”

Now look again.

Where is the “I” in that nothing?

Did you find it? Or did it slip in as a habit? As a whisper in thought?

There’s just silence, as you said. Not the kind you listen to with ears. The kind that is.

No levels. No hierarchy. No one above, no one below. No self to climb or fall.

Nothing. Just this.

But now—watch closely.

Does this “nothing” lack anything?
Does it need fixing? Understanding? Enlightenment?
Is there any “you” left that needs anything at all?

Tell me exactly: What’s missing?

vince

[Anand12]

When i is customized and identified by relationship of world and levels like body, taking care of body ailments seasonal or any etc etc,

It slips and have to use as mantra or mindful shelter or philosophy.

In those time, it feel like missing the touch and falls in planning by using thought and " what to do " inventory or investment s..
Hope i am clear in answering

[vinceschubert]

Hi Anand, It seems that we have a communication difficulty happening.
This is not a conversation in the usual sense. The questions i ask need to be considered individually. Yes i want you to answer each one (after quoting it, so i know what you are responding to - Here is how to do that viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660)
The purpose of my questions is that you consider them and hopefully discover something when that happens.

It slips and have to use as mantra or mindful shelter or philosophy.

Quote and answer thiese questions, but pay particular attention to what happens as you consider them..
Good. You’re catching the game in real-time.

That slipping?

That’s the return of the ghost self.
Not because it’s real—but because it’s familiar.

It whispers: “Use a mantra.” “Grab a teaching.” “Take shelter in a thought.”

And just like that—you’re back in the house of mirrors.

Every philosophy is a veil. Every mantra is a crutch. Every “mindful moment” is a loop if it’s being used to get back to what never left.

Can this silence go anywhere?
Can nothing slip from itself?
When you notice the slip, don’t try to recover.

STOP.
Freeze the moment.
Not to “become mindful”—but to see what’s happening.

Right here, right now—who is reaching?
Who is grasping for philosophy or shelter?

Look without flinching. Is that one real? Or just another ripple in silence?

If silence needs no support, no return, no practice—

what are you really trying to get back to?
And who would return?

Answer from the heat of that. Right now.

vince

[Anand12]

can this silence go anywhere

From the heat of now, silence of now can't go anywhere.. But at sensation level what body interpret it and register and save it like taste or smell.. That mechanism also don't go anywhere!!

So when this body mind tool sit in organized satsang or zoom talk and meditation, silence registered that time also get measured in form of some experience or expression.

And many question remain un-answered like is it new silence or progressive silence of previous one too.

[vinceschubert]

Anand, i counted 8 questions and you responded to one.
Answer every one of these please. Direct and concise. From the perspective of experiencing. No thoughts except as expression of description.
1) Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?

2) Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?

3) Is there an actual past or future?

4) How do you relate to your thoughts?

5) How do you relate to your emotions?

6) Has your relationship to other people changed in the past year?

7) How do you react when conflict / problems arise?

8) What is your relationship to life?

9) Are there doubts? if so please describe them.

10) If you are not the separate self, who/what are you?

vince

[Anand12]

1) Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
2) Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?

Yeah, when i think an inherently independent self exist, it exists.
And feeling also come.
References and practical experience :
Hoponopo Prayer is when done something shifts, practices of Jainism like pratikraman when thats done something changes also.

I assume independent self means, every living being has own self and own journey like various bikes on the road.

[Anand12]

3) Is there an actual past or future?

In practical term actual past and future exists for functioning as past or future defined in oxford dictionary.

Though impact of past or future are point of view, it may changes and so its actuality can be questioned (?).

[Anand12]

3) Is there an actual past or future?

In practical term actual past and future exists for functioning as past or future defined in oxford dictionary.

Though impact of past or future are point of view, it may changes and so its "actuality" can be questioned (?).

[Anand12]

4) How do you relate to your thoughts

It is dependent upon my involvement and mechanism i developed to deal with " thought".

Example : should i buy this material or dine in that restaurant or cafe...
I use thought, perceptions, calculation to deal it.

Similar structure is developed here for various thoughts.. For some thought i just have to ignore.