Liberation

[MarRaim123]

* Admin note, part of thread translated from Deutsch by auto-translator.

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Its all emotion, fear.... not me

What are you looking for at LU?
Out of the "Matrix", the reality
5 years ago I downloaded your app and read the dialogues. I wasn't ready then but now I am. It has changed my world view to follow the dialogues and see the developments of people. I understood it cognitively and now I want to "understand" it emotionally too, to feel it.
[Vor 5 Jahren habe ich ihre App Heruntergeladen und lese die Dialoge ich war damals nicht bereit aber jetzt schon es hat mein Weltbild verändert die Dialoge mit zu verfolgen und die entwicklungen der Menschen zu sehen Ich hab es kognitiv verstanden und möchte es nun auch emotional "verstehen", spüren]

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Appreciation, patience, respect for one another, I expect an authentic effort to understand me and my path to this realization, I would like to deal with the process in an intensive phase and also have quick dialogues but sometimes it takes some time until I am aware of what I can and want to actually write and what I have gained in terms of knowledge.
[Wertschätzung, Geduld, Achtung voreinander, ich erwarte mir ein authentisches bemühen mich zu verstehen und meinen weg wie ich zu dieser erkenntnis kommen kann, ich möchte mich in einer intensivphase gerne mit den prozess beschäftigen und auch rasche dialoge führen aber manchmal bedarf es sicher einiger zeit bis ich mir dessen gewahr bin was ich tatsächlich schreiben kann und möchte und was ich an erkenntniss gewonnen habe.]

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Chinese Philosophy and Mediation, Qi Gong, - Neurobiologie and psychoanalysis (at work)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Thank you for your patience in waiting for a guide. There are currently no German speaking guides with availability. I resonated with what you wrote and would be happy to be present in this inquiry with you if it is OK to proceed in English.

Before we start please read both the following documents from LU carefully and let me know if you have any questions, doubts or reservations in regards to them:

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Looking forward,
Becca

[MarRaim123]

👍

[graceabounds]

Great MarRaim123,
—Is this what you’d like to be called?

5 years ago I downloaded your app and read the dialogues. I wasn't ready then but now I am. It has changed my world view to follow the dialogues and see the developments of people. I understood it cognitively and now I want to "understand" it emotionally too, to feel it.

The understanding and familiarity with the material is helpful. And we will be working experientially for much of this dialogue.

Let’s begin by answering a few questions on the level of thought:

1. What will be different when you realize there's no separate self?
2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?
3. What do you want not to happen?
4. What are you hoping for?
5. What is missing?

Looking forward,
Becca

[graceabounds]

Just checking in to see how everything has been unfolding…

Becca

[MarRaim123]

Hello,

I’m so sorry for the misunderstanding. I had asked by email when I might expect to be assigned a guide, as it has been several months since my initial request. The Admin mentioned that I had already received a reply, but I hadn’t realized that was the actual guidance message — I thought I would receive another email with a link once it was time. This was the first message I got.

Would it still be possible to be assigned a guide now, or would I need to register again?

Kind regards,
Ina

P.S. Is it possible to receive an email notification when someone replies to me in the forum?

[graceabounds]

Hello. I’m your guide. I’ll send an email message now.
-Becca

[MarRaim123]

Hi, thank you so much!
May I ask how we should get started? Would it be helpful if I summarized my current situation, ongoing efforts, and the challenges I’m facing?

Best regards,
Ina

[graceabounds]

Sounds good, since it has been a while since you registered.

Also:

1. What will be different when you realize there's no separate self?
2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?
3. What do you want not to happen?
4. What are you hoping for?
5. What is missing?

-Becca

[MarRaim123]

....oh I see - you have send me questions a few month ago. I´ll try to answer:

What will be different when you realize there's no separate self?
I have listened to so many people that I think I have a fairly realistic idea of it. I think I will feel my emotions, see them arise, but know that these are emotions — not me. They don’t belong to me; they are generated by this body.

What do you expect to happen as a result of this?
A massive sense of relief, to recognize that I can observe my emotions from a certain distance and am not fused with them.

What do you want not to happen?
That fear comes — partly irrational fear — and ruins the process for me. I’ve experienced exactly this once before. I think I experienced the “edge” of this state once while shopping, after I had been trying for a long time during a car ride to tell myself, “this is seeing what happens — this is not you — this is hearing what happens — this is not you…” Right after that, I went shopping and was overtaken by a completely different perception of reality. I can’t describe it, but I had never felt such a state before. I began to cry because I thought, I have it now — and perhaps I did. Suddenly, fear shot in — completely irrational fear — that something terrible might happen if I now follow this path — and it was over. Since around May 2025, I’ve been trying to reach this state again. But I’m very stubborn, and I think that’s why I haven’t succeeded. By now, it has become a fatal pattern to often tell myself, “this is just seeing — this is not you, the ‘you’ sees…” — a cognitive concept that I overlay on true perception. What I must say is that the cognitive part helps a little. So when very strong emotions come, I tell myself “in my mind,” this is not you, these are emotions. And the emotion becomes weaker. But I only see this as a crutch, not the actual perception that matters.

What are you hoping for?
That I reach this state again I described, or the state that really seeing makes possible.

What is missing?
A guide ;)

[graceabounds]

Thank you.

These mantras you are using, “this is not you” etc…
It is a mechanism of control. ‘You’ are still the narrator narrating from a place of assumed self, trying to manage experience and steer it. When you say it helps a little, it is a bypass of the emotion, which just is, like the weather.

What is the difference between feeling and a thought about feeling?

That fear comes — partly irrational fear — and ruins the process for me

Who is “me” in that sentence?

When fear arose… what actually happened? Look now.

Fear arose. Raw sensation.

THEN a story of “something terrible might happen” arose. It is not what is happening now, it is a thought about the future.

Are you willing to let go of the illusion of control and be with whatever is?

Right now, can you feel whatever is here, without trying to change it, name it, or get closer to anything? What sensations are present in the body when I ask what is here?

Much love,
Becca

[MarRaim123]

About my scene in the department store:

Yes, fear appeared as a raw physical sensation. Then thoughts arose — (“something terrible might happen”). Actually, both were there at the same time — the sensation and immediately the thoughts. Yes, the “I” is also just another construct, you’re absolutely right. And I think that’s the problem. It is known, but it isn´t feeled.

In the department store scene, it was still more “native” for me than now. At this time in summer I was much more often in the “here and now,” feeling that seeing was simply seeing, hearing was hearing…

Now I’ve developed this stupid performance pressure, and as soon as I feel a sensation, immediately — almost automatically, as you said — a thought is laid over it. And my “mantras” also run almost automatically: “this is seeing…”, “this is hearing…” I’ve gotten myself into a dead end. Yes...

Today I tried to perceive even those thoughts as constructs. My problem is that everything has become so “cognitive.” I’m looking for a way out of this automatism.

Back then, in the department store, I actually had this feeling as if only “seeing,” “hearing,” “walking…” were happening. It was incredible — it only lasted about a minute. But like a little child discovering something new, I walked through the store and felt joy — joy in the perceiving itself, I can’t describe it any other way. The fear stopped it again afterward.

Yes, I really want to let go of control. I think back in May it had already developed much further than now; it feels like a step backward at the moment. Somehow I also feel too much “performance pressure.”

My hope is that through the “right” questions and the “right” kind of looking, I can be led out of this dead end again.

So, my current “mental knot” is basically this: I have a brief moment of perception in the here and now — and immediately, almost automatically, a thought arises.

My question beyond that is: How do I perceive this “thought”? Because again another thought comes, telling me, “this is just a thought, a label”… like a mirror reflecting a mirror…

Or when I tell myself, “Now I’m just trying to perceive what I’m feeling, seeing, hearing…” — then again a thought comes, followed by another thought.

What still puzzles me is how to see “free will” — and will in general. Because “I” — or this bundle of nerves woh thing that this is an I — decides to go down this path of seeing. But for me, in perception, that again feels like a cognitive process…

I hope this wasn’t too confusing. If it was, please tell me and I’ll try to structure it better.

Kind regards,
Ina

[graceabounds]

Notice, when there is a simple question:

Right now, can you feel whatever is here, without trying to change it, name it, or get closer to anything? What sensations are present in the body when I ask what is here?

Go back and read what was written. NO answer to this question, but a LOT of thought and explanation.

Today I tried to perceive even those thoughts as constructs. My problem is that everything has become so “cognitive.” I’m looking for a way out of this automatism.

Yes, exactly. So to begin with, answer the questions that are here. They are on purpose.

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.
Give it some time...
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

My question beyond that is: How do I perceive this “thought”?

A thought arising IS direct experience. The CONTENT of the thought, what it is about, is not.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and write back with a few examples in the same format as the above.

If thoughts arise during this process, that is just fine, just keep up the labeling throughout the day. Sink into it. Let go of the agenda. We will get to control and free will soon enough.

If the fear comes again, pay attention to where it is, and break it down as in the above exercise.

[MarRaim123]

Sorry: I know I’m not supposed to dwell in the world of thoughts, but I wanted to first explain myself and describe the hurdles I’m facing. But now, everything I wanted to say has been said anyway. Maybe you could give a short comment on this “sensation” that happened in the department store in May?

Now, to your questions - Sorry, since they were mixed with statements and comments in the text, I may have overlooked them.

1. Right now, can you feel whatever is here, without trying to change it, name it, or get closer to anything?

Yes, I feel a tightness in my shoulders, a little buzzing in my ears, and a maybe warm feeling in my chest, that´s not so clearly felt. I just feel this all.

2. What sensations are present in the body when I ask what is here?

I feel tingling in my hands, maybe a little bit heaviness in my legs, and a "high" ringing in my ears. At this moment, the ringing ist away - then it appers again...

3. If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now, what color are they?

Answer: “They are dark blue.” ( looking, not thinking)

4. How do I perceive this “thought?

I notice the thought coming up like a little wave in my head. I feel it, and it goes away. It comes again...

5. Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile.

I see the room, the colors, and the shapes. I notice light and shadows, movement. I just try to see, without thinking about what it is. But thougts come up every moment...

All the best!

[MarRaim123]

Thank you for the exercise!