Athaato jidnyasah

[xyz]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand it theorotically but have never confronted the truth.

What are you looking for at LU? I'm looking for a guide...who knows it....who has it....can help me get through.I do not wish to continue my life not knowing the truth. Everything here is old rotten and dying....what is the use of it...there must be something which is out of this trap....!

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Liberation.....once forever....! A conversation with a guide can definately take me in it.The instructions or the direction given by a realized guide can do wonders.I'm certainly looking forward to it.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Almost zero experience in seeking and inquiry.No spiritual practices followed in the past...in fact nothing is followed except for the old habits of minds.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Bananafish]

Hi xyz. :)

My name is Kento. I'd be more than glad to help.

Please let me know what you expect what you call "liberation" to be, and we could continue
thereon.

Regards,

Kento

[xyz]

Hi Kento,
My name is Omkar.First of all thank u so much for accepting my request.Liberation for me is to know the "limitlessness" from which this limited world is getting manifested. So in other words its liberation from "me" as a limited separate time bound entity.I dont think that it ll necessarily change the external circumstances except for the fact that circumstances won't matter any long and life story will be a play, full of fun sometimes a rollercoster ride.But in any given situation there ll be a peace,harmony and total acceptence.
I request you to share your experience of liberation which might will help me to understand the things.

Gratitude.

[Bananafish]

Thanks, Omkar. :)

As you refer to the liberation from "me," what does that word "me"
point to? Please be very specific about it when you answer.

[Bananafish]

Oh, and one more ...

circumstances won't matter any long and life story will be a play, full of fun sometimes a rollercoster ride.

It might be a matter of wording, but this part needs a bit of caution.

Circumstances will surely matter, and life won't always be full of fun.
It isn't that you'll live a carefree life for good.

For the time being, it is safer to see liberation as just liberation, nothing more, nothing less.
You see through the illusion, full stop.

Above said, would you still be burning to know truth?

[xyz]

Hi Kento,
Whatever may come or happen I'm ready to burn.





Gratitude.

[Bananafish]

Great, Omkar. :)

Please take your time to answer my first question.

[xyz]

Thanks, Omkar. :)

As you refer to the liberation from "me," what does that word "me"
point to? Please be very specific about it when you answer.

Hi Kento,
"Me" seems to be a programming or conditioning which is continuos. Has a past so expects future. Unique in its own way but limited or contracted.A personhood necessary but not sufficient.When I try to find it intentionally I dont find it but when something happens which is not according to its set framework or programming (which happens regularly ) it pops out.
Thats the "me" for now.


Gratitude.

[Bananafish]

Ok, thanks Omkar.

Now, let's get a bit less conceptual about it.

Suppose that you lost the ability to think about what "me" is.
Then, what is "me"? I this case, is there still that "me" as you answered in
the previous answer?

[xyz]

Kento,
I dont think that I thought and answered the "me" question.I simply said what I have been observing.I might have landed upon a wrong conclusion or I might have observed it wrongly.
Now when I looked for it considering inability to think I cant find it or Im unable to pin point it but thers a definate knowledge or sense of I am/ me.Inhaling exhaling also obseved.And when It is observed the breathing pattern changed.



Gratitude.

[Bananafish]

Omar,

thers a definate knowledge or sense of I am/ me

Could you tell a bit more about what you call "sense" here?

Is that "sense" thought (idea)? Imagination? Bodily sensation (including auditory
and visual sensation, something of five senses)?

Please feel into that "sense" and try to identify it.

Kento

[xyz]

Hi Kento,
This feeling is of being,like "I am".There is no particular spot for it.Am I going in right direction??Kindly shed some light.






Gratitude.

[Bananafish]

Yes, Omkar, you're doing great. :)


Keep feeling into that "feeling," and try to tell whether it
can be categorized into one of the seven below:

five senses plus thought and image (visual or auditory).


When we experience something, do we experience it as something other than
the above seven? Maybe you combine sensate experiences to make up a concept of
that very object you're experiencing, but here, that is too crude a way
to see things as they really are. Take a look at any experiences moment
by moment, in a very precise way, and see what's really happening.


If doing this experiment with that "feeling" is difficult, try it with things
before you, something very ordinary like a cup or a window.


When you see a cup, instead of conceptualizing it as "cup,"
which is the result of arbitrary combining visual sensation (color) of cup,
your own memory of how it felt when you touched it, or the sound it makes, etc.,
tell what it is (Is it color? Is it sound? Is it touch?) right at the moment it is experienced.
Is it a "cup" as you've thought it to be until that moment of observation?


The key here is to bring things down to raw sensation,
without conceptualizing them.


Please ask questions if this sounds unclear.

Kento

[xyz]

Yes, Omkar, you're doing great. :)


Keep feeling into that "feeling," and try to tell whether it
can be categorized into one of the seven below:

five senses plus thought and image (visual or auditory).


When we experience something, do we experience it as something other than
the above seven? Maybe you combine sensate experiences to make up a concept of
that very object you're experiencing, but here, that is too crude a way
to see things as they really are. Take a look at any experiences moment
by moment, in a very precise way, and see what's really happening.


If doing this experiment with that "feeling" is difficult, try it with things
before you, something very ordinary like a cup or a window.


When you see a cup, instead of conceptualizing it as "cup,"
which is the result of arbitrary combining visual sensation (color) of cup,
your own memory of how it felt when you touched it, or the sound it makes, etc.,
tell what it is (Is it color? Is it sound? Is it touch?) right at the moment it is experienced.
Is it a "cup" as you've thought it to be until that moment of observation?


The key here is to bring things down to raw sensation,
without conceptualizing them.


Please ask questions if this sounds unclear.

Kento

Hi Kento,

Gratitude.

Yes,I think I get what you said about that "feeling" And I get that word water can not quench the thirst.I tried to investigate the feeling.What I found is this feeling is a combined resultant of 5 senses,hence it is the bodily awareness.It is absent in the sound sleep.
So, this 'I' which exists in waking state is absent in deep sleep?
Kindly shed some light.

[Bananafish]

Hi Omkar. :)

What I found is this feeling is a combined resultant of 5 senses,hence it is the bodily awareness.

Great job. Now, have the 5 senses been "combined" from the beginning?
Is it combined right now, in this moment, or do we have to make use of thoughts
to arbitrarily "combine" them, which results in a kind of conceptualization
about what we think "self" is?


Take your time to observe what is here and now, in this moment,
without giving it a name, without putting any labels on it.


In other words, observe the sensate experience that is happening
in the present moment, not something in the past, or something you aren't
experiencing right now.


Regards,

Kento