Take 2 new guide needed please

[Stacyg888]

b]LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?[/b] My body is experiencing life without a Self in the driver's seat

What are you looking for at LU? To become self realised, to experience life as non duality, to lose the attachment to Self that I still feel even though I know it is fiction. To see through the veil of illusion, to experience Oneness.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Pointers that will show me to self realisation, non duality and the cosmic joke. A guide who will let me experience self realisation on my own but prod me as needed. I am more than happy for a guide to reveal the truth to me and not just point.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I was being guided through LU up until a few months ago but then one day my guide just never came back. We did a lot of DE exercises but I never really understood how that was going to help. I watch Angelo and others but it's all just concepts to me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacyg888,
My name is Paul, I would be happy to walk with you through this guiding, if you would like.

There are a few small things that I would request of you and if these are OK then we can Proceed.

1. Drop all the other videos and reading lists and youtbe content and modalities, while we undertake this exploration. It is very surgical and having other data (messages) coming in can make it confusing. You can go back to it after we finish if you find the impulse to do so.
2. Drop the expectations that there should be this or that, because what ever you expect it is non of that, these expectations will confuse you and block you from the SEEING.
3. If you feel overwhelmed with the process at anytime please let me know.

If you feel that these request are OK then we can start.

What shall I call You?

[CarefulDog88]

Hi
Are you still intends to be guided?

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

Apologies! I didn't receive notifications of your replies. I have made sure to tick the reply box now.

Yes please, I still wish to be guided. You can call me Stacy.

And yes to 1) that is easy. 2) may be a little harder for me but I am sure you can guide me away from expectations when you spot them. And yes to 3).

Thank you. Looking forward to getting started again.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

may be a little harder for me but I am sure you can guide me away from expectations when you spot them

Tell me what do you expect to happen when you see that there is no self and never was and never will be? Details Please and be as honest as you can, without the generic response. Tell it from the depths of your beliefs.

[Stacyg888]

Well, when I first saw there was no Self, nothing happened. It was simply an "ah ok, so that is how it is then" moment. Nothing changed but that did lead to more questions about how life and reality really work.

My deepest desire is to see beyond the illusion of what life appears to be, to experience that we are all one, not individual beings.

So perhaps I would say is that there is an expectation that all will be revealed now that I acknowledge there is no Self and never was - except that hasn't happened yet but my hope is that your guidance will get me to that perception as my experience.

I hope that makes sense.

Thank you for the quick reply!

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

So perhaps I would say is that there is an expectation that all will be revealed now that I acknowledge there is no Self and never was - except that hasn't happened yet but my hope is that your guidance will get me to that perception as my experience.

If no self, who is it to be revealed to?

And what is to be revealed?

[Stacyg888]

If no self, who is it to be revealed to? And what is to be revealed?

Ah, when reading the question, it becomes obvious that there is no one for anything to be revealed to, nor anything to be revealed.

How does this become my experience? Right now that is only understood intellectually and possibly not even understood accurately.

If there is no self and nothing to ve revealed to no one, then what are we actually doing here? What is the point of self realisation?

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy
Just so I can see where you are at would you do the following exercise please.

4) Thought exercise
Sit quietly for about 15 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying
and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are thoughts coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment
instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative, or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
What is a thought made off?
What can a thought do?
Can a thought think?
Just notice that thoughts are arising and passing.
Please answer ALL the questions.
Look as many times as it is possible during the day even for a few seconds

[CarefulDog88]

After the last questions try these ones. Be honest and try not to go to the thought stream, use DE direct experience.

How does this become my experience? Right now that is only understood intellectually and possibly not even understood accurately.

Who is owning the experience, look using direct experience?

Are you not experiencing?

Is thought required in order to experience?

[Stacyg888]

Ugh. I replied two days ago then saw today my reply didn't submit successfully. Take 2 ...

I haven't used quotes to answer all the questions as there were so many but it should be easy to follow:

Where are thoughts coming from and going to? They arise from nowhere and fade to nowhere.
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? No. Sometimes it seems that I can choose thoughts for a short time but I believe this is just an illusion.
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead? No.
Can you predict your next thought? Haha, definitely not.
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts? It appears that I can but again, that is just an illusion.
Can you choose not to have painful, negative, or fearful thoughts? No.
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought? No.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? No.
What is a thought made off? Nothing, it just is.
What can a thought do? Nothing.
Can a thought think? Think.

Then from your next post:

Who is owning the experience, look using direct experience? This is trickier. How do I use DE to see this for myself?

Are you not experiencing? It seems that I am but I am confused about all this as I recognise I don't have a self but still feel like me, Stacy. Can you please give me some answers rather than just questions?

Thanks Paul.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

What is a thought made off? Nothing, it just is.

Lets have a look at this, If you can picture in your thoughts santa clause coming down the chimney carrying a bag of presents,
Is this a thought?
If it is a thought what is in the thought?
what is it made up of?

Now when that little voice is talking inside your head, what is it telling you?

How are thoughts communicated, in what format?

Who is owning the experience, look using direct experience? This is trickier. How do I use DE to see this for myself?

LOOK in your body to find something autonomous, a little Stacy separate to everything else that is experiencing?

Are you not experiencing? It seems that I am but I am confused about all this as I recognise I don't have a self but still feel like me, Stacy.

Right now are you experiencing, LOOK yes or no?

I recognise I don't have a self but still feel like me, Stacy

OK, so what does Stacy feel like, Describe in detail what this feeling of Stacy is (go into your body and use Direct Experience, the sensations in your body , sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, sensations in the body, feeling without thought sand emotions)?

Can you please give me some answers rather than just questions?

What do you want to know the answer to, that you could look for yourself to find?

[Stacyg888]

Is this a thought? If it is a thought what is in the thought? What is it made up of?

Yes, it is a thought and it is made up of words strung together, just words are in the thought.

Now when that little voice is talking inside your head, what is it telling you?

Just words, their content is irrelevant.

LOOK in your body to find something autonomous, a little Stacy separate to everything else that is experiencing? Right now are you experiencing, LOOK yes or no?

I don't find a little Stacy, just seamless experiencing of life all around me and right through my body. But the illusion that there is a little Stacy in here (this body) persists. How do I break out of that perception?

OK, so what does Stacy feel like, Describe in detail what this feeling of Stacy is (go into your body and use Direct Experience, the sensations in your body , sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, sensations in the body, feeling without thoughts and emotions)?

DE confirms that there is no sound, image or smell of Stacy. When I let go of thoughts and emotions in looking, there is just nothing. Stacy feels separate, boxed in a container (this body) - even though I can't see that when I look for her, the feeling still remains.

What do you want to know the answer to, that you could look for yourself to find?

What is the value of DE in this work? And is self realisation the same as seeing through the illusion of separation?

[CarefulDog88]

HI Stacy,

Yes, it is a thought and it is made up of words strung together, just words are in the thought.

Thought can be seen as words and images, is that fair to say?

Now when that little voice is talking inside your head, what is it telling you?

Just words, their content is irrelevant.

The words and images are delivering a story which would be content, which is irrelevant, is that fair to say?

We can conclude that thought is made up of words and images which create a story which is the content of a thought and is irrelevant because?

LOOK in your body to find something autonomous, a little Stacy separate to everything else that is experiencing? Right now are you experiencing, LOOK yes or no?

I don't find a little Stacy, just seamless experiencing of life all around me and right through my body. But the illusion that there is a little Stacy in here (this body) persists. How do I break out of that perception?

Please re-read your response and in your response please try to answer your own question, (relax and sit with your question, and sit with you response)

DE confirms that there is no sound, image or smell of Stacy. When I let go of thoughts and emotions in looking, there is just nothing. Stacy feels separate, boxed in a container (this body) - even though I can't see that when I look for her, the feeling still remains.

Let me understand this correctly, what you are saying is that when you go to your body in DE you let go of thoughts and emotions and there is nothing, but you still have a feeling of Stacy.

My question is, if there is nothing, is the feeling of Stacy, a thought that is labeling a sensation in the body as Stacy?

Same question as last post describe this feeling of Stacy using DE only

What is the value of DE in this work? And is self realization the same as seeing through the illusion of separation?

what do you see the value of DE as in this work?
If you take thought away from self realization or seeing through the illusion of separate self does either of them exist?

[Stacyg888]

We can conclude that thought is made up of words and images which create a story which is the content of a thought and is irrelevant because?

Because thoughts come from nowhere, are not made of anything other than words and images, and they go nowhere.

I don't find a little Stacy, just seamless experiencing of life all around me and right through my body. But the illusion that there is a little Stacy in here (this body) persists. How do I break out of that perception? Please re-read your response and in your response please try to answer your own question, (relax and sit with your question, and sit with your response)

To break out of that perception, I need to look at things differently using DE only.

Let me understand this correctly, what you are saying is that when you go to your body in DE you let go of thoughts and emotions and there is nothing, but you still have a feeling of Stacy. My question is, if there is nothing, is the feeling of Stacy, a thought that is labeling a sensation in the body as Stacy?

Yes, Stacy is a thought - I now realise Stacy is no more real than Santa. Stacy isn't experienced as a sensation but rather as a perception, my way of seeing the world from this limited awareness/body/person.

Same question as last post describe this feeling of Stacy using DE only

Stacy is thoughts and images which amounts to nothing.

What do you see the value of DE as in this work?
If you take thought away from self realization or seeing through the illusion of separate self does either of them exist?

I see the value of DE as getting to the source of everything, DE is all there is when narrative is taken away. When we take thought away, all that is left is Life - no self or self realisation.

If that is correct, I get this intellectually, just not experimentally.