Need guidance

[besttorest10]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
By self, I understand some entity that is fixed, independent, separate and has control over my life. The one who makes decisions, can reject authority, can think for himself and be different from what he is fed.

What are you looking for at LU?
It was a curiosity at first. Then it hit me, if there is no self or agency, I will be led to a deep feeling of rest. I don't need to worry. Things take care of themselves. Also, if there is no self, then the question of death and the anxiety over it dissipates.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect a compassionate, non-judgmental person who only asks some questions and allows me to investigate them. I got the e-book and skipped the materials mostly and just went directly to the steps at the end of the book. I am now around step 6. Things are muddy: sometimes I feel there is only sensations and thoughts going around. But then sometimes I feel someone is actually in charge for instance when I focus on something. Some volition. I also feel there is a core of awareness constantly at work at least when I am awake. So perhaps this is just the I?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am an atheist. Yet I am spiritual. I am not into pseudo-science practices like astrology or crystals. I just have a philosophical mindset and would like to find things for myself and investigate things like a scientist. Finding the bigger picture.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

I'm also atheist. Can't find any "god" in Direct Experience. Very much like not finding a "self."

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

It helps to come to this forum and post every day.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

[besttorest10]

Hi Stacy

I read the disclaimer. I read the FAQ. But this part is vague to me : "This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I." My understanding is that you claim there is no "I". So what is this saying in FAQ? Please explain.

I am afraid your questions written in blue are quite vague and unclear to me. So I cannnot answer. What do you mean for instance : "How will life change?"

I am fine with the housekeeping rules.

My name is Farshad. It is an Iranian name as I am originally Iranian. I am in Eastern Time Zone.

Warmly,
Farshad

[Anastacia42]

Hi Farshad,

Right. There is no "self" or "ego," so what would be be "getting rid of?"

Please do your best to answer the 4 questions in blue. We are checking for expectations, if that helps. You are the first person to ever say to me that they were vague or unclear. I've been guiding for about 7 or 8 years. I've helped over 100 clients cross the gate (so says our admin). I don't know why they are difficult for you.

Much love,

[besttorest10]

How will life change?

Life changes when new understanding is gained. It changes when I see new things; or connect the dots; or have a new way of looking at things. Life changes when things are viewed from a different slant or perspective. Life changes when things are interpreted in a fresh way.

How will you change?

I change when I see new things. I won't be the same person. I also change on my own every day as I eat new food or read something new or talk to someone. I am changing every minute; I feel it in my bones. I sleep; wake up and voila....something has shifted. Fascinating.

What will be different?

Things will be different. The weather is different. My feelings are different. My weight is different. My knowledge of things is different. Everything seems to shifting endlessly. How amazing. How interesting. How alive.

What is missing?

A deep and profound connection with other people is missing. Others seem to live through shame and fear. They want to hide themselves. So difficult to find a profound connection with others.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Much love,

[besttorest10]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

I think I feel mostly curious. Like how come?

[Anastacia42]

That question checks for fears.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks



There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.



Here is an example to illustrate the difference:



If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:



• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.



• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!



Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.



For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.



Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that



We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..



Direct or Actual Experience is



Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)



Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.




Loving,

[besttorest10]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I'd like further clarification about feeling and thoughts. You say feeling sensations is direct experience whilst feeling emotions is not. 1. Please clarify the difference between sensations and emotions. 2.Then explain why feeling emotions for instance sadness or happiness or jealousy is not direct experience because it seems to me otherwise.

3. What is exactly "thoughts rising'? How is that direct experience? 4.Thoughts are verbal. What do you say their content is not important?

So I guess all in all 4 questions. I numbered them for easier response.

Warmly,
Farshad

[Anastacia42]

The next 2 pointers will handle this clarification. The pointers leave nothing out that is needed for seeing no self.

1. Please clarify the difference between sensations and emotions.
Sensations are felt in the 5 senses.
Emotions are those Sensations with a label or a story attached.

2.Then explain why feeling emotions for instance sadness or happiness or jealousy is not direct experience because it seems to me otherwise.
See above.

3. What is exactly "thoughts rising'? How is that direct experience?
The fact that they show up is Direct Experience.
Their content, the stories and labels, are made up. They aren't real.

4.Thoughts are verbal. What do you say their content is not important?
Let the pointers show this to you. Made up stories of content are not important here - other than to realize they, like the story of a "self" are not important or even real.

Let's continue with pointers. I promise they can answer all of your questions.

People get this next one wrong a lot. So, please read carefully and answer precisely as indicated in the instructions.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[besttorest10]

A quick query: you did not mention touching as a portal to direct experience. Was it forgotten in the list? or you have a different idea? Like I touch the keypad.

[Anastacia42]

Yes. I did.... Feeling

Direct or Actual Experience is



Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

[besttorest10]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Reading a poetry book:
- Touching the page, simply = Sensation
- Seeing the words, simply = Seeing
- Reading the poems, simply = Thoughts arising

Eating Dinner
-Seeing bread and yoghurt, simply = Seeing
- Touching the spoon, simply = Sensation
- Eating food, simply = Tasting
- Memories arising, simply = Thoughts arising
- Talking with my friend, simply = Seeing/Hearing/Thoughts arising

Washing the dishes
-Feeling the running water, simply = Sensation
- Seeing the dishes, simply = Seeing
- Moving my hand, simply = Sensation
- Hearing the sound of running water, simply = Hearing
- Memories, images, thoughts, simly = Thoughts arising

In a meeting
- Drinking Coffee, simply = Taste
-Seeing other members, simply = Seeing
- Smelling the coffee, simply = Smelling
- Talking to others, simply = Seeing/Hearing/ thoughts arising
- Feeling stress in my stomach, simply = Sensation

[Anastacia42]

Perfect. Now try this:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Loving,

[besttorest10]

Mind labeling experience

Part ONE
I am sitting at the desk.
I feel some tightening in my back muscles.
I hear the rather distant sound of cars.
I am coughing.
I feel full.
I am looking at my beautiful yellow notepad.
I scratch my face.
I think about my neighbour's gesture.
I breathe deeply.
I drink milk and tea.
I breathe deeply.
I think "I am alive".
I think " This feels homework."
I imagine going to the park today.
I swallow.
I feel my feet on the floor.
I fan my underarm.
I think "It's a hot day".
I recall Boston Airport scenes.
I am afraid if you like my homework.
I fidget with my pen head.
I imagine you correcting my homework. I look at a blue white sky.
I inhale deeply.
I feel my feet on the ground.

-------------------------------------------------------
Part TWO
Thinking
Hearing
Some tummy sensations
Looking at the red little bag
Looking at the white study lamp
Images coming to my mind
Hearing water drops from the sink
Hearing a truck passing
Blinking
Exhaling
Almost biting my tongue
Seeing the yellow notepad
Bending my neck
Images coming to my mind
Sitting up - Paying attention
Seeing white sky
Thoughts coming to me: "What an easy exercise!"
Pushing my down lips out
Thoughts arising
Looking at the wall
Hearing the traffic
Thinking of a book
Seeing my MacBook Pro screen saver
Thoughts arising
Looking at my Kindle

------------------------------
FOUR QUESTIONS

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second one. Because the actions happen on their own. I don't DECIDE to do them.

2. What is here without labels?

I don't know. I cannot describe it. I felt my body sensations though more acutely.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They affect it.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Some sort of weightlessness.